Paul talks about his experience of coproduction and the impact of involving community members in coproduction research!
mhm. Um, would you like to introduce yourself? Yeah. So Manning's Paul Moran. I'm a public advisor Far Northwest Coast. And, yeah, I've been doing that role for 18 months or so. Now I've got involved in, you know, a number of different projects Thank you. Paul. Paul, what is the public advisor? So a public advisor is somebody that has got lived experience or kind of works in their community and particular topics And then we will get involved in either research. You know, in early stages where people are thinking about doing research, get involved with lived experience of our own or indeed, kind of, you know, people that were working with. So, you know, in another role I'm also a boxing coach within and my local community. So I've got a lot of experience work, and we're kind of young Children, um, evolved different levels, abilities and kind of, you know, creating development plans for them for their physical and mental well being. So we just kind of push that into a number of either studies or researchers or, you know, anything like that that comes through our can off this course Hope that's articulate today Okay, Yeah. Thank you. Thanks, Paul Some really interested in, Um, would you be able to share with me an experience you've had of co producing something for your experiences of co production? Yeah. So I probably got a couple of examples, so I'll just go through and you can obviously kind of fixing whether it is something that fits your So when I very first come into the public advisor role, I had an experience where there was It was initially through initiative called Clark, and the clerk was looking into a number of different communities across the Northwest and particularly pinpointed my area, which is also one in Liverpool. We kind of became, came into the area and asked a number of the people from the community But I was business leaders, but that's just general public of, you know, for myself as a boxing coach in the area. And what are the problems in the area? What would we need to fix? One of the ones that I particularly kind of latched onto was around air quality in the area. Now, obviously, as an asthmatic myself, as a father of two young Children, it was really interested in this topic, as I think our area in particular is really struggling in that we've got three of the main foreign affairs into Liverpool City Centre All intersection, old swamp, so top middle and bottom. Let's leave Old Swan. And now And I run a boxing club right in the middle of Old Swamp, which has obviously got, you know, 30 40 50 kids at any one time, 10 up every day, doing physical exercise and activity And so I was really interested in. I think I'm doing really good things here by kind of creating this physical activity, but actually the environment they're working in, um and we're kind of, you know, teaching them in its probably not fifth purpose because that that kind of central location is one of the West for their quality in the Northwest, not just the city. Um, so obviously I was really interested in that really interested in what they were doing, and that got me involved in the public advisory role and and that kind of, you know, given my experience, given the experience of the kids in the boxing gym and also as a father, who again whose Children school at the time was again right on that mean for a fair and an intersection So I was really interested in that kind of, you know, pushing my experience along. So that was my first kind of almost into kind of doing this type of stuff and getting involved in this type of research with no experience of being in the past. Probably Then, as I got into it and I was thinking to myself, how am I going to contribute to this? You know, piece of thing that I'm getting myself kind of pulled into a couple of months into the pandemic started and and kind of all the issues that the pandemic raised, particularly in my area, was was really interesting. And this kind of project that I got involved and gave me a lot of confidence in that my kind of lived experience on my expertise is actually fitted a number of different things. And at the time everybody was trying to get people, Would you, particularly the race of people going for those test was really long? All I'm sorry again So So it's interrupt. I lost you. I don't know if the Internet is you cut out what I got up to and then you kind of froze was getting involved as a result of the pandemic Can I ask you to go back there, if that's OK? Yeah, that's fine. Um, so So, yeah, if the look that obviously when the pandemic best happened, they were looking for people to go and get tested to see if they had covid 19. And what they noticed in my area of Old Swan was that the rates were really low for people going to get tested compared to other areas of Liverpool And so again, you know, they reached out to me as someone who lives here to go and kind of, you know, put a little group together to find out why this was the case. So I just kind of spoke to people that aren't even my community got to let working party to get a chair. The call and people from kind of, you know, the the Northwest Coast came and listened to the opinions of the people in my area And we've quickly figured out that one of the main reasons why people weren't going was because there wasn't a testing site, local too old Swan. And they were all kind of on the periphery. So people were young Children, people who were home schooling, people were possibly still working, but didn't really want to go anywhere else Wouldn't kind of make the effort to travel two miles to get attached on. And I'm not earlier and channel, and with that gave me quite different from tax. You know, Would would kind of make a difference there, So, yeah, I'm losing you again, Paul So, um, I just want to let me just pause the recording for sec, uh, one second stuff. So, Paul, tell me about the work that you did in Covid. Yes So where I had an opportunity to get involved in a project that came through which look was looking, particularly in my area. Um, Old Swan in Liverpool. So what What was kind of identified was at the beginning part of the panda I mean, we were asking people to go and kind of get tested to see how far the, uh, you know, the rates were growing. And you know which areas particularly were affected and mulch one at a really low rate in kind of, um people going to get tests and didn't really know why That was the case compared to other awards and little people of a similar size. And so the Ark Northwest Coast reached out to me and said, We know you're living old one and I would like you to go out and kind of reach out to your network and see, You know, if people get involved in a conversation about the reasons why people weren't going to get tested And so that's what I did have reached out to a number of kind of contacts in my area that I've worked with through the boxing gym and from the local magazines that that had happened And we just got a little working group together, people of all ages and kind of, you know, all ages and experiences and stuff. And they just got together and talked through kind of, you know, some of the issues that they thought might have been the reason for all to end up in a lower rate. And what we figured out was that some of those reasons were really simple You know, we didn't have a testing centre right in the middle of old swan because we had a lot of kind of young families and Old Swan. It's It's one of those groups, you know. Some people will have been home school, and at that point some people will have been trying to work from home, which was kind of brand new to them And I just didn't have the time and to get out and get that test done. And if they have to travel kind of a couple of miles. So yeah, it was just kind of decided that to create a testing centre right in the middle of old one And you know, there was no surprise that the rates went up from there and without any real the promotion of it. It's just that people seeing it and then spread word of mouth. And so I think that's just a good indicator of how you can kind of reach out to contacts in local areas and make a make a difference really quickly because it was literally within a week that the difference was made just after the back of their having not having that conversation So yeah, that's brilliant, and that gives really clear example of how co production can make a real difference to people and organisations in society. So I'm wondering about your own behaviours and perceptions. Have they changed as a result of co producing? Yeah, definitely As as I say, I'm I'm not an academic by any means. I'm definitely not a researcher. I've never really had experience So it's still my full time roles, actually do actually working projects. So work for the for the big Bang kind of a change manager. So, you know, all change that comes through the bank comes through my team and I then go out and kind of, you know, make a difference And I and I think some of the skills are transferrable from my actual roll into kind of, you know, some of this coproduction role of bringing people together with lived experience to kind of make a difference, you know, once just a bank and ones kind of in my community. So I think I think I didn't know what I could bring to me. I've been probably a little bit surprised about how much transferrable skills I've got in my day job to you know what to do with the with our Northwest coast And that's given me a lot of confidence to kind of speak up and, you know, let people here, in my opinion, because I think sometimes in research, that's all people want. You know what's what's an opinion and maybe what's what's not the popular opinion or what's not what people want to hear? Um, I think probably a transferable skill from my boxing Coaching is exactly that. You know, sometimes kids don't want to hear what you've got to say, because it's not a popular opinion, but you've got to put it across and and where we kind of build development plans for certain kids and certain individuals, Sometimes they don't like what we're doing, what we're doing it for the best of intentions And I think that's kind of again a transferable skill that's going across the co production of, you know, asking the awkward question or asking something that maybe nobody else asks. And I think that's a again that's giving me just the confidence that keep asking, keep asking those questions that maybe are not popular. Why is it important to have people we lived experience co producing? I just think that's, you know proper lived experience of something I work at the moment That's on a theme lead for the hate calls. So that's health and care across the life course. Now that's that's really broad health and care across the life course So that's going from kind of, you know, Mother, young mothers, you know, stuff to do with babies and feeding and all that kind of stuff. And you think, You know what? As a man, have I got an opinion or something like that? Well, you know what? Why, why wouldn't I have an opinion or something like that? I've got two Children. We went through our own experience And even though I'm not the mother in that situation, if you're just asking others about that type of thing and then you don't get a full broad spectrum of things, that might just be one thing that one guy asks or tells you that you didn't even think about. And so I think it's really important to have people from all different ages experiences, you know, backgrounds, religions and to bring stuff into co production. Because if you just got everybody that's the same as University qualified, who knows what we say it is the kind of you know, those those knows the process They won't ask the questions that you want them to ask, which are kind of real lived experiences and again with the hate cards. You know, we're working with people on the other or the end of life around time to dementia and 10. Or we've got a couple of public advisors that, you know, we're going through that at the moment with, you know, with the partners they're going through and they've got and things like that in in their lives So giving their opinion of what it's like day to day is vital because, you know, they're they're coming up with questions and, um, situations where you don't You wouldn't really think about that. If you're an academic, you've obviously got a study that you're looking at. But do you know on a day to day, minute to minute basis what it feels like to be somebody in that situation? You don't unless you've been through it yourself So I think people would live to experience and people that may be haven't had that lived experience. But I'm looking at it from the outside I think it's just good to have a view of a number of different people in anywhere from party that you go into. And so that's my opinion Anyway, thanks for that. That was a really good Um, yeah, that really did take me to a place like thinking enough that asking a dad about their experiences? Yeah, bringing those different ways. So you talked about feeling So how does how do you feel? Competition? What does it make you feel like? It makes you feel good It makes it if it makes you feel it's still you're contributing something. Um, I should say I tend to get involved in studies so far that have been linked to something that I know. It's obviously the cold with stuff and new because it was my area and knew that I was involved in a study where the air quality stuff that I said talked about at the beginning that you probably hit it off again and knew that and there's one recently come up about their contact centre work and how well being is impacting the contact centres I don't know about that. I think what? I'm gonna start challenging myself more of those is getting involved in stuff that I don't know so well because my opinion of that stuff that might give me a little bit of education around certain topics that are probably haven't had before and and kind of get involved in all of the things that maybe I don't know so well. So but if it feels it feels good, you know, it feels good to contribute It feels good that people are listening and it feels you get a sense of achievement when something comes out of it. Like the thing about you know, the covert stuff gives you a sense of achievement to just think that you, you know, um kind of increased the outcomes of kind of, you know, something like that for people within your community, even though they won't know you have ever had that conversation. I know it made a difference in my community, and that's probably what's important for me as a somebody is probably saying, There's a bit of a community activist Yeah, thanks, Paul. So I'm wondering about sort of Africa. Of course, any challenges at all, um, challenges challenges are, are I would say not everybody's got the same opinion that I have the everyone's opinion matters And so possibly when I've been trying to get out, to speak to people about air quality in my area, If they're not interested and they're not interested because they don't see the value in it, they don't see the what's in it for them. And I think sometimes you gotta wear really hard to pinpoint what's in it for you and for them to give you an opinion. So and I think we've probably found it in our group of public advisors, you know, we've got We have got a broad range of kind of people from all different backgrounds in there, which, which is brilliant to say But again we struggled to engage people that want to come into that group, and that's just because of I don't know. There's many different reasons around. People haven't got the time or haven't got the inclination to do it, but actually there's lots of people out there that probably would do it And if they knew what what was in it for them for particular study. So that's probably one of the difficult part for me, you know, engage in people, um, to care about the thing that you're working on. Probably say so, um, really important that we highlight different aspects So if you've got the top tips to to co production, um, a top tip for yourself is asked the question that you've got on the tip of your tongue that sometimes doesn't come out. There's no there's no one saying there's no the only the only stupid question is the one that you don't ask. And I think that's and that's that's really key And don't be afraid to give your opinion because even if it's your opinion, there might be other people sitting on that call or in that group that are thinking the same thing and then just haven't got the confidence to say it. And then when one person says that, everyone goes, Oh, yeah, and I think there's, um I just started a totally different threat of a conversation, which brings a lot of projects. So yeah, that's the question Don't be afraid to get involved and and I think a little bit wider than kind of what, what, you what you do on a daily basis. So you know, there's some things that you might have an opinion on, something in the news that you might have an opinion on the study comes up for it. You know, just be being be confident enough to get involved in stuff that maybe you don't see on a daily basis and give your opinion about because sometimes that opens up a totally different angle for a project that they've never really thought about before and possibly then and for you What is the value of co production? Um, for me, it it keeps it keeps it real. And so a lot of the time I was involved in a study a while ago, and I can't quite remember which one it was. But they sent me some data of 300 people who have been interviewed, and what it said was it was interviewing people from poor communities in and around Liverpool, challenged communities, disadvantaged communities And when I actually reviewed the data around about, I think it was maybe even 50% of people that were involved in that study had a university education and degree. Now I didn't think that that was a good representation of people in these poorer communities. in Liverpool You know, there's definitely not, you know, 50% of the population and people in Liverpool have got a university degree and I kind of challenge that and gave that feedback of, um, you know, you you need You need to be a problem. You need to give a proper representation of the people that you're actually going to be impacted. And I think if you've just got people that it's easy for you to go and there and then that's not good enough And, you know, sometimes it's difficult and it's definitely been difficult over the pandemic of kind of going and speaking to people in groups and community centres because they've all been closed. And But now that the back open and we really should be kind of challenging ourselves to get the information from the people that actually counts now, we can't even brought your question was as of course, went on a little bit there. But to answer your question, the value of co production for you, value of co production for me, Um, I think for me personally, it's just making making a difference to people and whether it's my community of old swan, whether it's the people of Liverpool But I just think for me, it's, you know, it's the value of getting involved and getting my opinion head. Sure, thank you. So my last question is, um, is there anything similar about boxing and co production? So you talked about boxing somewhere If there's anything similar, the probably is, if you think about kind of a certain a certain child, you know, if you're thinking about that child coming into was when the eight years of age, I'll give you an example of somebody now. So like cocaine came in eight years of age. He was He was a friend of his sons, came through the boxing club, never boxed before. Very timid, very weak. Uh, we worked with his mom and dad to build his confidence because he was struggling with confidence He was struggling at school a little bit. It was maybe a bit of a naughty kid, and so we after a while that he'd been in and he's been kind of boxing with his dad, came in another weather and said, Look, we'd like to use this as a little bit of a carrot for him. You know to kind of, you know, good behaviour means you go to boxing Bad behaviour means you don't and that worked for him for a little while. Then he moved to senior school and the jump between primary school and senior school was it was a difficult one for him and he got involved in a probably a few of the bad lads should we say in school and started acting up a little bit and his dad wasn't the voice that he probably was before when he was in primary school. So we then have to start with and with a few of his teachers in school, to kind of again kind of put that together and and then he started showing real talent and he's been to a few competitions going really well And he's now on the England talent boxing pathway with England boxing. So again, we've got to work with the parents, go to work with the school. We've got to work with England boxing and we've got to think about the child in terms of safeguarding in terms of developments and in terms of what we wanted to represent as part of our boxing club and I think that's called production myself, you know? So what? I'm what I'm doing there I'm definitely doing kind of, you know, as part of kind of co production and getting people together, having those conversations, thinking about everyone's opinion and kind of challenging myself. So I think, you know, it might interpretation. I think that's kind of a co production is Thank you Do you have anything else that you wanted to add about your experiences of co production? Um, no, I think I probably covered that. I hope the answers are being interesting and can be of some help. So where? Yeah, if you if you need to contact me again, you know where I am Um and no, that's That's been a really good conversation. Thanks. Either I've stopped the record.