Dorcas shares her experience of coproduction and maternity services the true impact of coproduction and every day services for women!
Okay. Could you engage yourself, please? Um, just a minute. Uh, recording improved Just a minute and just putting my full name. That's it? Yeah Good afternoon, Isaac. Yeah, Alright. Yourself plays well My name is Doc. A k g o B e. The Obi is from the coin It's not my soul name or somebody. Sometimes they pull a job as if it's my soul name, but that's from the coin. What a lovely honour to receive Thank you. Thank you. I was wondering if you could tell me about an experience you've had of co production Well, when you know, when I got the email, I was thinking I said, You know that those Lauren wants the current one and an old one, and we I just sent her what I've done in the past and what I'm doing at the moment. A few years ago, before, I was a midwife for 35 years. As you can see, that's got to be And, uh, I was working at the Liverpool women's, and when we were when we were there, we had a lot of being community women coming to our clinic with language barriers. And so when I was there, so I thought, you know, there's something we could look at, Uh, already I was ready. The chair of, uh, an organisation called, um uh, women's advisory committee Uh, current car drives the committee. So we look at issue around women and we look at, you know, breast screening amongst the blame community, so we try to see if the care is equal, was equal. So that's when with me and other colleagues, we started to look into it Some of the colleagues there are visitors, nurses and community activists, like from Somali women, Arabic women. And then we thought, maybe something we could do also have a clinic where I was living it. But it has to be, uh, core products produced, Really? Because you couldn't do that without bringing other people So we are the what you call CCG now, which is clinical, uh, commissioning group. They used to be called something else, so they are the one with the money, and then we are delivered for women that wanted the service. And then we got the woman I swear that we like the service. So it's like three were areas that we have to cover. So we had to work with the CCG to get some funding to make sure that we can set up the clinic, which is called the Link Clinic The length clinic means the link between the ordinary clinic and the clinic with this woman that do not speak English. So when we set the clinical, we have to make sure that the women were able to you know what I want to say? Why wouldn't be interpreted? So we had about six, uh, link workers, but with 10 different languages. So, like polish or the Arabic Somali, French, Polish So it got bigger and bigger. And then So when the movement comes to the clinic, they and they don't speak English, then they say, Well, languages, this book and we will have to link them with a length worker to support them. I've got to interpret for them or to to to support them through the during the care So that's the first one that I could say. And this was in 2019 2020 1999 2000. So that's before co production was really a big thing, you know? So that was when I did really And again, as time goes on, I am I do a lot of community work and I'm the chair for my organisation and Europa community. I was looking at your material Looks like Africa, So I was. So when I'm doing something, I've got to bring everybody together I, you know, I believe that you can't do it on your own. You got to share and make people come to know what you are doing. So with that, when we're going to arrange something like in the community, I would be the one to make sure you know, the secretary, the treasurer and then the community itself, you know, to make sure we're doing the things right It's just I am volunteer orientated and community orientated. That's why getting into all this and lately I did a conference which is also co produced. Uh, I don't know if you know about sore optimist So Rob Thomas is an organisation for women. I will spell it for you and we right, we may hear and provisional mission was to enable empower women and girls all over the world, not just in the United Kingdom. So we have a clubs in Nigeria We have clubs in India. We have clubs in America all over the world. So I'm because I'm this year for the for my region I add to this year, uh, arrange a conference, which was a challenge for me, really. But to be honest, I had good conference committee from, you know, from the from from two different clubs. So there was supporting me, and I was there as well to support them So it's a two ways when you did organise them things and producing things. So the conference was 14th of May this year. It was a good conference, and I will send you the link to it as well And what we want to do was to do conference. I lighten domestic violence, female genital mutilation. Uh, forced marriage Refugee. So Yeah, So I tell them what around, uh, speakers that we like. Really? So we are there speakers from, uh, somebody who will come to speak to us about, uh, domestic violence in 1800 You can imagine how it's been going on, and it's still on today. And then we had a prediction marriage in which the speaker came from. She came all the way from president to live up to her And then I had to set up another day. I wanted a group of Sarepta means to talk about the refugee to talk about the modern slavery, trafficking and domestic violence. So we got that And then we had speakers on on the environment elsewhere so that we're reaching everything as much as we can. So that was a good one because even I've just read the report from somebody saying it was a very good conference. So for me, that's what I call co production, you know, uh, to do things together and uneven research I mean, probably researchers were, and I belong to a I'm a p a, which is public advisors for apply research, collaboration, their organisation and they do a lot of research. Our voice as public advisor is to make sure that the researchers are listening to the call communities and listening to the patients. So that's our job And so I've been involved in a lot of different researches about mental it about domestic violence, about all different things, really so in a way, even the organisation they always want us to be aware that we have to work with them and co produced with them, you know? So, um, I think those are the areas that I do cover. Uh, anti. Can I ask you what value or difference does coproduction make to me? Really? It makes a lot of difference to me that you mustn't leave anyone behind You mustn't say that person cannot contribute. And you have to allow people to contribute. When you are, we want to co produce something You can't just do it on your own and say mine is the best way. So to me, the value to it is that everybody is involved in what you're doing and everybody understand what you want to do. And then you do You all work together, and that's the way I see it. And I like the way you call me Auntie, because that's what we call the October's. Where I'm just saying, used to call in elders aunties, and yes Yeah, I was wondering if you could share with me. What impact does working in that way have on the projects that you involved? Uh, yeah, for example, the one I told you about the impact is unbelievable. The one for the living for women Do you know, even though it was set up in 1998 99 the clinic is still running today. And that is really good for me. Even though I have left, uh, uh, retired the clinic He said there. And the woman appreciated them coming to the clinic, being able to speak their language and somebody supporting them. And that's it, that's for me is good Um, I when I when I got your Billy, I just said, It's not just for me. It's the people that worked with me, my team, because I was a team leader, you know? So that's that, you know, for me and, uh and it's not just the midwives or or the manager, the women themselves having a say in what we are doing, you know, because we used to have, uh, have awareness day for our woman build community and Liverpool. And you know, they will tell us No, this is what we want. We don't like breast training. So how do you want us to to portray that? So we have to have a woman comment with so many layers, like Arab woman and when she comes in Alabama is a doctor, comes in and is and it's a man She would do the runner. And through that things have changed that. You know, we should have women and those clinics to see women So it has had a lot of impact, you know? So I mounted anti If you could share with me, Have you changed in your own practise or your behaviour as a result of co producing? Yes, I have definitely changed because, um, in the last in the last 23 years now I'm the co lead for my team. And in the Applied Research Collaboration, we have six teams and I'm an ACA team, which is half. And, uh, I have a life across life in which we look from pregnancy than to when the baby is born than to when you are growing in the middle age, when we look into the other So with that, really, uh, I've learned more about co production since I've joined them, although I was doing it because that's the way I work. But when I joined the hack, I realised that yes, this is what I've been doing without even learning about it. So I have learned a little more and I believed that knife I want to do anything Uh So I'm a chair for so many organisations. I will make sure that I ask people What do you think? Should we do it that way? And I think, you know, or have you got any ideas so that we can bring you all together? So I have learned a lot Honestly, Thank you. So I was wondering if you could other many challenges with co producing There are challenges. A lot of challenges is where because some people, we have their own ideas and they want you to use their own ideas alone. So you have to Really? Really? If you are the one that is trying to bring people together, you have to come down and trump, look at this other side of things Let's do it that way. You know, that's one big, big challenge because if you want to co produce yours cannot be the only thing that works. You've got to listen to the all this So that's one challenge is another challenge. Really is catching people together, right? For example, if we want to do a research. Always study researchers You want to do a research for our people? They've been community. What language are you going to use? Are you going to use leaflet in English only. So are you going to talk to them? Are you going to get into printer? But when I did my masters and I have to do my thesis on female genital mutilation, I have to go to the group of women that they did not speak English So after get interpreter to help me to interpret for me because I wanted the view of the woman that I've been talking about. So that's another challenge, so it can be costly. But if you want to do it properly, you need to do it properly I always study researchers, and when they're talking about mental health as work, I always say when we go to meeting to say okay, right the way the Africans to come mental, it might be different the way the English people look at it. You must put that into perception because we don't talk about it. So I explain to them why we don't talk about because it's a stigma, you know, So it was all the challenges for the most important thing is that whoever is leading that project or leading that research must be conscious of, you know, when they're dealing with and how they can bring them together and how they can cross over understanding what What is going on? Yeah, that sounds really powerful How everyone has something to contribute? Contribute? Yeah. So anti I'm wondering about what value do you think co production has on individuals, organisations and society? Well, the value will be I am part of it was Well, that's one important thing. I believe in change, and I'm part of that change, which is quite good And they're not just talking to me. They're getting my opinion. You know, For example, I'm, uh I'm people, you know, people We call us a patient participation group for my G p so and be cheaper. They're doing something we can talk them to say, but this is not right. Can we do it this way? So I think that is the that is good for everyone to be able I am part of it. And I believe in the change or the change is happening because I contributed to it, You understand? I think that that's good for people. Doesn't matter You might be my mute contribution. It might be big contribution before contributed into it. Thank you Do you have anything else you wanted to share with me about co production? Yeah. When I was reading that million eight yesterday I talked to I wonder what he's going to ask me now because, uh, coproduction really? I think it's something that I feel it's all organisations should be using, right? And it's how we promote it, you know, because you can't invoice it onto some people organisation. But whenever a project is coming, it's about how we promote co production to people to say what we're going to do this This is how we're going to do it and we are going to do it together And I think that is, uh, important in coproduction. Another thing is that about listening to the others. You know, maybe I'm talking too much now you can hear me listening to what others are saying not just saying Well, we've got them They're take the box now, listening to what they are saying and used what they're saying And if you don't use it to to tell them why it's not being used so that they don't feel rejected. Maybe I'm saying the wrong thing here, but that's where I look at. It really is Is something that is we all have to do together. And when we have to do it together, we have to make sure that is properly done together. Not just yeah, you do that I do that. Bring it all together so that it can work. And the project we work Oh, if it's a research because you can't do research on now, somebody as at the meeting on, uh, zoom yesterday with somebody and she's looking into women having babies chateau because because they are too late to get to the hospital and the ambulance delivering them. So I was saying, You need to get those women. We need to get women to understand what you are doing before we start I say you need to have some programme for the now before you go to the back. Because she was looking at the data of the ambulance crew that I've delivered babies. Otto, you know So what's happening now? We need to know what's happening now and then bring you together. So I think that's what I have to say about co production. Really listening to people using their ideas And when you've used their ideas, make sure you tell them, you know you know, like people. You sure successfully such They don't call to you. That's no good, is it? So make sure you mentioned them because they're part of the project or part of the research Thank you. I haven't got any more questions. Do you have anything while you wanted to add what I want to ask you Now, when you've done recording and you will you send it to me so that I can listen to myself? Of course I will I feel maybe you don't even understand me. Maybe I'm not clear, You know, I understand. I understood everything, but I will definitely let you let me positive recording There.