Report transcript in: Not Another Co-Pro Project Reflective Interview

Please Report the Errrors?

OK, Pete.

So can you tell me what has been

your experience of the not another co-production project

so far?

In most, um,

stand out thing that I've observed is how human

our own gatherings are. So I remember distinctly

when we first met in s meeting house

back in 2021.

And there was such an energy in that room. So many. It was a nervous energy. Really?

So many thought we saw

What shall I say?

There was so much trepidation,

almost Strad fear, I suspect,

as it was the first time

in over a year that many, many people

have been out actually left those where they live

and I met with others in person.

That's

the number one observation for

working with

another co production project. For me,

outside of

just going to an awful

has been so important

realising that

you're not on your own with your ideas

about working with others,

there's other folk

out there with equally good ideas, if not even better

working

in their everyday lives. Our proud are non working.

I mentioned it earlier before he arrived that

Oh,

it's not new to me. This concept of

co production it's I've been doing it for decades,

and it's just perfectly natural,

so I don't really actually think about it anymore. I just do it.

I never actually mentioned before that we are doing co production.

I don't go there without, um,

remit at all.

It's just about being a human,

interact with others

and learning from others.

And I've done that. Whilst I've been on this particular project

with many thoughts into what they've had to say,

listen to what they're doing,

what they intend to do.

So I learn in North

Korea,

well, the number one thing is human

through and through

what has been the one of the key things you would say that you have learned then in

this process,

I've been doing it all long.

Yeah, it's certainly not new to me. That's a key message to me.

It's not new to me. I realise it's very new

to many, all those many individuals and certainly to many organisations.

It's as if it's fallen out. Its guy, almost.

It's not new to them, something almost alien

up to me. No,

no, this is

I'm looking to say Oh,

but it is. It's the truth. It is

to me

and I just find it

so natural

and I struggle and I'm honest and truthful,

um, with others

finding it so new. And

I think I can't see it. It's so obvious.

But clearly it's not obvious to everyone,

Certainly not to some big organisations.

Do you think then? Because you find it quite easy and natural and it comes, you know,

quite comfortably to you.

Do you think you're in a position to then

help other people that probably don't find it as easier

do you know and guide them and lead them a little bit

bold?

I'd hope that I'd do it purely by example,

but not by telling for

this is what it should do.

I'd hope

that just being me, Miss Anne and I

the natural person I am

that they pick up on it.

That would be my hope,

dreams, my aspirations.

Is there something deeper

that, like takes place when a person learns by example as opposed to learn from,

you know, um, being being told or being instructed,

Do you think it like it?

Do you think it gives them a greater kind of,

um, understanding

to actually witness it,

I lose. Or

in that

I learned as a child

the difference in

teaching and learning.

I can

teach folk

at any level you want,

but

it's there

they have to learn.

So I'd want them to learn from my example

which I think

the best form of changing. So most of the by example.

Yeah, yeah, I mean, I really, really get that.

Um do you think that like

there are a lot of people that are willing to learn about coal

production Have you found that there's an energy to learn about it?

Or do you think that there's just kind of,

like a bit of a buzz around it? But then there's not really a commitment to it.

My experience has been

there's two levels of it.

Two distinct groups.

One is individuals.

Definitely

well enjoy. Definitely Once a while, yeah,

Organisations, corporations

not nearly so

reason being probably most likely,

they're reluctant

to relinquish power.

All organisations, all

institutions,

are based on the power structure

and co-production

by definition challenges that

and there's a lot of resistance to it.

That's my experience.

Do you think that there's a way we can overcome that you know those

those that, um, that support coal production.

Do you think that there's a way to kind of

to kind of, um,

challenge that power or try to make people a

little bit more comfortable in relinquishing some of that

again? This was about two examples.

The best

that I'm aware of

rather than tell them

what they should and shouldn't do,

give them good examples

of work or production has worked,

and everyone's been a winner. There's been very few losers, if any,

and then

get them to see

by working cord productively.

think we could actually

do our jobs better.

We could please more folk.

We could be more efficient,

could be more effective

if you can

give good examples that are not so big if. But if you can give good examples that are,

I believe personally,

that's the best approach there is.

So you think that like when it comes to coal production,

it's much better for people to be involved in it and to be told about it

absolutely 100%.

Why is that?

Because

severely

agent how

it goes?

Don't do as I do, but do as I say

and far too often

we've all been subject to that. I've never been a fan of it.

I'm not a fan of it, and I'll never be a fan of it.

know,

I know.

Let's all do the same together.

And so

that's where co-production,

but definitely

So do you think that co production then has a

greater element of kind of teamwork and camaraderie than,

like the typical structures that have existed?

You know, in a hierarchical sense?

Most definitely.

What was it that made you get involved with coal production? Pete. Initially,

I think just being me,

the person I am

and just a naturally copro productive

resents power

for power's sake.

I've always thought that

it's, uh,

a reflection

of Ananda.

Um,

inadequacy. Really. People who exercise power generally do it because

they have. They believe they have to be seen to do it

and

ensures a lack of confidence

ensures

to mine

on personal being. That I am.

I see as a weakness rather than a

strength.

Is that so when you're talking like that,

do you mean specifically like abuses of power and things like that

in particular,

because with great power

comes great responsibility

we all will see great power. And we have our lives.

How many will see responsibility that goes hand in hand with it,

I'd suggest for you.

Yeah, Yeah. I mean, they say that power corrupts, don't they?

Yeah. I've definitely heard that one before, Pete. I've definitely heard that one.

But is there not instances where power is necessary?

Power is always necessary,

but

with responsibility.

And that is

not often the case.

Very rarely

his power

and join the responsibility that it demands. That's where the problem

lies.

So if there was one thing that you could address in coal production like you,

you could use coal production to address.

Would it be the power element?

Oh, definitely. Yeah,

yeah. I'm not saying that's all I do, but

that's definitely one.

It's

a major.

Probably

the

major,

right. OK. Do you think this is not another coal production project

has given you the chance to explore some of that stuff?

I'm only some truth,

but

no,

I don't.

I love and hope that it will

genuinely I do. I do love and what we do. Well,

well,

based on

when we started and where I am today I would say no. No.

And why is that? Do you think?

Think it's a case of

to bring that about your daughter in the right place at the right time?

And I don't believe I've been in the right place on the right time?

That's not to say I won't be.

But, um, I would say

Not

with that

qualify or not

that in

relation to

why I'm involved in this specific project.

I am

normal hospital

outside of this,

going back to what I've been doing now for

two decades or more.

How bad?

Plenty of opportunity

with local governments,

with NHS

national level and even an international level last week,

um,

regionally, but plenty of opportunities

to challenge power

to influence

work.

But last

outside of this specific

project, you understand? That's just

me who I am

in what I do.

So there's a bit of a conflict there,

have to

admit,

and what's the difference? Then why do you think that is? Why do you think that

it's been, you know, um,

you've not had that opportunity in the same respect in this?

Do you think there's been

a different set of people in the room a different kind of agenda, a different,

a different purpose.

It's been different people.

It's a definitely a different agenda

and

how

he was. And it's

just not been in the right place the right time.

OK, I still live in

Well, we had the opportunity

to be in the right place at the right time.

And if I don't

not what I can do that is it

OK?

So if you was in the right place at the right time,

what would be your desired result?

So you had to realise,

Where are they going wrong

and to change their approach

and think, Hm.

There's gotta be a

better way.

And he's shown as

so let's have a go at it.

Do you know if you

do, you know, when you correct people,

do they often get defensive?

Do you know, if you try and like, do they often think of you to tell me?

Do you know? Because you're saying like

where they'll listen to me and they'll think actually,

he's telling me something that's right here.

He's

you know, we're doing it wrong and stuff like that.

If you tell someone that they're doing it wrong? What's the response usually?

Oh,

if you tell someone who really about nine times out of 10,

they become defensive

and that's why

we were impossible

will always

try not

to care.

Or try not to tell him

and by using good examples,

but then

draw their own conclusion by me telling them

that I realise,

hm,

that's a better road

that he's just described than what we do.

And then

Noah's been offended.

There's no apologies to be made.

um I've lots of I

That's the one Exactly she is, and 11 is,

police said. Soon this man did,

and then

globally.

There's a line that says you can never win an argument

When you win an argument

always gets hurt,

so he didn't actually win.

So I try my best to avoid those situations. I genuinely do,

and I'm hard

try my best to avoid time for what they don't know

much sooner. Shown a

great example of something that's

worked

some of that probably they don't do,

and they'll learn from that

rather than me

telling them

you've done it wrong, but then

come to that conclusion.

Let them go away and think about it.

What I try to do

sounds like some absolute pills of wisdom that, you know,

like they say, don't they?

If you win, win the argument, lose the person do, you know, lose lose,

lose the friendship, lose the relationship,

you know?

Yeah. So, like,

for me, right,

I one thing that I want to ask you is like,

as opposed to, like, an

us and them. Do you think because I'm thinking of the term co production

like,

uh, um,

you know, because you're saying

about,

you know,

people listening and stuff like that.

Do you think co production as opposed to just listening?

Do you think coal production works better

when you're actually working on something together?

Do you know?

Because, like, for me, that's what it means to co produce Something means to

to work on something and to to produce something together, don't it?

there's no question it does 100%. It does indeed. Yeah.

And

working together,

you realise,

And

different people,

different

spheres Within any organisation,

they have different strengths.

Now, in different strands,

it doesn't necessarily mean

they have different powers. They have different strengths.

They two different things

and

realising

those strengths and utilising those strengths

to get the best result is what Co-production is all about.

Yeah,

yeah, and I mean, what do you think?

What do you think happens when you bring them strengths together?

Then you get as soon as you don't be aware of someone

else.

No,

carry on.

That's amazing. That

really

very difficult. Not impossible.

But it's very difficult.

And it's generally

therefore

resistance to change and re reluctance to relinquish power.

That's what generally

starts in.

Do you think that, like diversity,

makes us stronger then because you're saying like that some of our

parts is greater and we all have different strengths and stuff like that

and

are too often

organisations

want everyone

to be exactly the same.

Yeah, and treat everyone

in exactly the same moment

our

proper, genuinely struggling with that.

And there's a good reason for it,

if that's what you want. And that's what you believe in,

then, by definition,

on every

person involved,

to be the same as every other person

and,

well, there you go.

I don't need to say more. Do I really other than

it's never going to happen

everyone is an individual.

Every living creature on this planet

is individual.

Every

is that webs is individual

and far too often

repeatedly

we've all got to be the same. And we all be treated the same.

It starts at school,

the class

and he carries on

to the adult life.

You're working

experiences.

I never believed in it. I don't believe in it.

I never believed in it.

Do you think we should change the school programme like this?

The way that schools run and operate And

you know,

like this kind of conformity thing that they have going on where you're all gonna

you're all gonna function this certain way you're all gonna do things a certain way,

Do you?

Do you think that it, like, limits

people's kind of individual expression and,

you know,

ability to kind of adapt and grow to

suit their own strengths and passions and things?

Um,

it's

it makes

that one because

we have

certain constraints in school without our certain constraints in society what

we do.

But at the same time,

within that constraint,

who was running the show was in power for the best experience.

Who was responsible for others, that's even better for it.

They should recognise

that everyone's an individual

and

find out

what their strengths and what their weaknesses are, utilise their strengths

and help them

with the weaknesses.

That's what schools should be doing.

That's what colleges universities should be doing.

That's what employers should be doing.

And I'm never

gonna say it's easy because it's not.

But it is possible it is entirely possible.

If it's something you believe in,

you gotta believe in it

to do it.

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Posted By

Author

Georgia Davenport

Post date

08/06/2022