Andy has an MBE for his services to disabilities. He explains to Isaac why he felt dictated to during the COVID pandemic, and believes that resources would not have been wasted if statutory services were designed in partnership with Deaf and Disabled people.

Disability Rights UK (DRUK) and  People’s Voice Media have engaged in dialogues with Deaf and Disabled people about their experiences of the COVID-19 pandemic and lockdowns. These lived experience narratives detail how people were treated by health and social care professionals, together with the difficulties Deaf and Disabled people faced when support and services were withdrawn by local authorities. Additionally, the dialogues explore how Deaf and Disabled people are currently managing in their daily lives, their hopes and expectations in terms of the COVID Inquiry.

These narratives are great ways to learn from one another, and can be powerful communication methods. Some of the people sharing their lived experience are speaking on behalf of people they care for who do not communicate verbally.

So can I get you to introduce yourself? My name is Andrew Walker. M b E a A Knight of the realm. A wheelchair night of the realm. I haven't a horse because I have a a wheelchair following a spinal card injury

So I'm a man with lived experience. So, um, where are you Based W W W Yeah, but based in based in, uh, Sun Manchester Rochdale. Specifically

Although I originally chap from Oldham just up the road, I can see all them through my window. Ok, that's fine. Um, Andy what? Tell? Like if I was gonna ask you, Like what? What, uh, makes you tick What you're passionate about, mate

Well, friendships, mate. So it's lovely. Love to see you, buddy

As always, uh, you know, people that I love, Um, I'm passionate about a lot of things, really. I love my sports. I love I'm very I'm a very competitive person

Maybe I I'm very much like family driven. So, like, I like, I like running businesses because I like doing things my way a little bit, which is usually the wrong way, but, you know, But it means that I get to have a bit of flexibility. I don't like I don't like, you know, I've got, like, I haven't really got a plan for life

I'm just, uh I like just to throw myself into it and see what happens. So I like flexibility and, you know, variety, type of thing. And, yeah, new experiences

I love lots of things, man. I I love life. Life is great

And look, you said what? Oh, I I love life as well. So, like, what? What do you do if you like? So, like what? What's your thing that you do? Well, I mean, so yeah, I mean, family orientated. You know, I wouldn't say I'm creative, but I like building things

So I'm like, So, as we were discussing before the recording started, this is like I'm on to, like, my sixth house. I think I've been building houses since I was, like, 18. You know, managing it more now and building it as I can't build them anymore

Um, but, you know, I run businesses like I run a business because I want to make a difference in the world. And, you know, I I know it sounds really corny, but it's true you know, um, you know, I've had I've had ups and downs in life, and I can see that other people in the community, I think, following a spinal injury, it gives you more of an opportunity to to have a voice to be able to help and support people. You know, I'm I'm a positive guy, but I'm I'm lucky because I've got such great family and friends

That's what it's all about. And everything for me revolves around family, you know, makes a part of that godchild. I've got a billion godchild

I dread Christmas. Um, do you know I've got three? I've got three goddaughter's birthdays in four days, Uh, at the end of November, so I might go and hibernate somewhere. So one's 18, so it's an expensive present, but no people

Lot of the good things. That's what makes me tick. They'll find you anyway

And I'm sure you'll find me. Find me, Find me. I know you can see behind me

There's, like, a million pumpy behind me. So I I came back yesterday from finishing work in Manchester at half four, thinking that I was going back to like a normal empty house and they had, like, eight people here, kids with pumpkins saying, We've decided we're doing pumpkins at your house. So, like from three different families and I love that Isaac, you know, just like a proper open door sort of policy

And I love I love my evening with the kids last night. Well, I mean, brilliant. Thanks, Andy

I was wondering if you would share with me. So what impact did covid, um, or the covid pandemic and lockdowns have on your life as a disabled person? Uh, like a huge, a huge impact. The first, The first thing that I mentioned

There is so many different things which it which it impacted and changed. The first thing was to get it did give me an opportunity because I'm a busy guy to kind of slow down a little bit. But the problem with that was I was slowing down and couldn't get near the people I wanted to be with

So I had all this time on my hands, but, um, it was usually like it's a huge time of anxiety. And there's a lot of stress because I have a 24 hour curve following a high level of spinal cord injury. Um, it's probably worth me explaining what? You know what that means for me is that, you know, physically, I need support with eating, drinking, washing, showering

And I looked down with a carer and his wife, who also had some complex health needs, uh, two amazing people. Um, but it it it was the simple things. Like, for me, it was like the like, a guy

Like I I felt like I I I I really was treated like a bit of an alien. It's like you, you're you know, everyone's like, you know, we were so worried about you and, you know, because I'm like, uh, you know, I'm I do all these like, first in the world challenges cycling across Kenya, climbing mountains, you know, flying with had controls, all this stuff. And all of a sudden I felt kind of like like to say it was making me more vulnerable than I wanted to feel like

I felt isolated. Everyone else could go out or if you're a key worker and that kind of thing. But I wasn't allowed to

The rules were different for me. It was dictated upon that No, there was no discussion about it. But the second part of that was I was actually, you know, really anxious and nervous about the pandemic because, you know, lung capacity, spinal bod injuries, respiratory problems are associated with it

And then, you know, bringing the the, you know, the the virus into the house, interactions with the neighbours, people passing food over shopping, that kind of thing. It was a massive stress and didn't have a clue how to handle it as a boss, as a as an individual employer or as a friend, you know, as somebody who was worried about it. And we had the most ridiculous arguments about black people passing us cake

Like, you know, we we we like people make cake for us. We want to eat it because somebody else had made it. But we accepted it

So like, and then, you know, so that was the first thing. Second thing was work wise, and financially, it was difficult. You know, we had I I had a shelter

Tin. I mean it. It's an open door

Now I've extended through it, but it was like we had four or five shelves. I looked at a picture the other day. It was like a a couple of years ago, and he had all these, like soups and things on panic buying and toilet rolls

And we were part of that, you know, because you just haven't got a clue when you gonna be able to get fresh food your next meal? It was horrible, wasn't it? I think the biggest impact was so as as an individual employs a disabled person. I didn't have a clue how to deal with it. And, you know, I didn't feel like it was initially well guided and and I felt very much like I was the, uh you know, you you you are really vulnerable because this virus, whereas it affected everybody

And that's what I kept saying, you know, it affects everybody, so that's one part of it. Work wise. But then things started to change because I got involved in the Covid health group

Our project managed that and and a lot more stuff online, started doing stuff online in the business, connecting with like pubs and scouts, and started to cook for people and distribute that. So we did like a, um a nominated hero thing. Do you remember? We did that

We cook him in in the so we so like an NHS a role so we could nominate a hero. So we we we got busy doing things differently and we adapted quite well. But one of the things that I that I was really keen to do was to learn from in the spinal community

I think I think it's really it's a really positive community where where people do naturally support because you've been in spinal units and people have peer support naturally. But I didn't feel like locally we did enough of that. And I was calling out to the council to connect people

But they just don't the connecting you. So you have conversations, they try it. And then what I want to do is like P so things like, how do you handle post? How do you, you know, wiping things down, living with P A s, you know, supporting them with their anxieties

You know, people live here solidly, but what happens if people are coming in and out of your house intermittently. Different types occur and support them. What I receive rather than 24 hours and let's look after each other mentally

Let's look after our p A s. The people are coming here to care for us. There was also the thing about furloughing, and you were part of that conversation

Remember Isaac the furlough, P. A s. And I remember the Health Minister saying, Do you realise you probably cost the country 25 million lives? Uh, £25 million or something? And I remember that er went back to this person saying I do you think about the money? I think about how many lives you might have saved everyone else to fill

But like my p A weren't. But then eventually you know, people like yourself myself try to put in conversations with high level health. You know, strategic influencers, ministers, whatever to try to see you know how things were

So that was part of it. The other part of it was quite interesting. Educational, different cultures, how they dealt with it

There was a lot of discussions, you know, learning a lot from people like clason around the community and other communities as well. You know, anti vaccine and I did a lot of work around, Um with a people just through the the the the group. And, um so it was educational

It was interesting. It was stressful. It was emotional, you know? Um, that's my brother

When they told you my house, the state you're being recorded don't swear. Yeah, it's cool, man. What do you mean? Yeah, you could do things like that during the pandemic

So, Steve, So that's my youngest brother. He had a child during the pandemic, and and, like, the fear of not being able to see, you know, and that kind of thing. So it was it

It was stressful. It was emotional. But it was also I thought, you know, I like the pan banging stuff

I like the fact that it remind me of the Olympics. Like, you know, Britain kind of gets together as a community. I felt that was more the community than the public sector, if that makes sense

So I wanted to ask you. So how did it make you feel as a disabled person, knowing that cost was even talked about rather than Yeah, Yeah, yeah, just yeah, just like that's the completely wrong way to tackle the conversation. So, like no nobody nobody asked anything about, uh it was like you must have math, math test safe masking

You must do this. You must. Your carers must do this or do it rather than giving me the US the choice and the trust to have a conversation and certain things were, like, needlessly expensive in one way

And then in other ways, they wouldn't fool all the staff. So that it it was like, I I didn't feel like, you know, And I suppose people who get involved in certain higher level strategic discussions conversations, you know, been involved with things like school and and, you know, for yourself, um and just generally you can force yourself into conversations and you do get invited into meetings, but what happen to other people's voices? And I didn't feel like there was a community voice I felt I felt very much dictated to rather than discussed with. That's how I felt, Uh, Isa, I felt, and, you know, in terms of cost of money, Yeah

I mean, it's just completely different way. It's about outcomes, isn't it? It's about having practical discussions. It's about, you know, I I discuss with people you must do this, I said

But if I do this, this is a consequence and a flat refused with the C c g to do certain things based on what we felt wasn't and and when when I talked to when I when I forced the conversation, talking them through it. They say, You asking me to do something that puts me and my CO was at risk by doing what you do by bringing people into house just to have a test. We've not been near anyone for three or four months at all, and all of a sudden you're asking people to come into the house

We don't want people in the house, you know, that's what we we decided. But you must have, you know, and it's like, Oh my goodness. And then and then I remember doing the mask test to say thing, and everyone looked like Bart Simpson with these crazy things going on in my over ear, and then and then the next week, they found out we didn't even have to do it

It was very confusing, Isaac, and it was very stressful for a lot of people to know what the rules were and, yeah, the conversation often started in their own money. So thinking about, like, how did you feel? Did you feel the same? I was frightened. I felt that we were as disabled people left to our own devices

And there was, like, a lack of information. And when it did, it was on based on the wrong stuff, because we weren't central to that conversation. Um, can I ask you like, I'm really interested in? How did you ever like? So you said that you and your p a and his wife or your p A s, uh, decided to kind of go into lockdown together

How did you come to that decision? What did that feeling look like for you? We We were We were We were actually in London at a conference, um, with an England at the time. And then I was working in and I was due to work in Chelmsford. And I remember in the whole country, um, talking about making decisions about locking down

I remember the first fear of anxiety going into a room with people. We've had several people and having discussions around. Should we stay? We were We were already there

We'd already spent a day together, and the country was starting to make decisions. You you're starting to understand and realise that this was, um, like, serious. So I was with I was due to be with him for a week, and he got me for three months and we just basically, because of the health needs of Amy's wife and he and Miss and Noreen, you know, Number one, they were worried about mo money income, Um, as were so I I like I had, like, sort of four regular staff, but one I already asked to leave, So that so that so That meant they had three regular staff who lived in Poland

And what they said was, if we can get furloughed happy days, basically, but because for them to travel from Poland and the rules over there and the headaches around travel and all the rest of it So So we we locked down for about three months together because based on a conversation with me and me and the wife, and what we actually did was, I went to I left home and went to the south of England while she was still allowed to and kind of had, like, a mini holiday thinking I'm gonna end up living with a married couple here For the first time since I lived with my mum and dad When I was 16, I left home, so that was a bit bizarre. And I thought we'd, you know, just have a bit of a break in a really safe, quiet part of the world. And we were allowed to on a farm, which was with people that I knew and trust

And then we decided to give it Give it a bash, which is what we did, and that's that's basically how it went. There was no help support advice around p A or what would happen if you know p. A

Don't want to come into your house or it it it was It was like you said it completely left your own devices. If information was available, it was on. Do you remember? It was like just loads and loads of sheets

Are you highly vulnerable? You know, like things like the online shopping and it's like you are highly vulnerable to the GPS, but you can't get your sheep to find out. You're highly vulnerable. And it was just messy, wasn't it? And and like like you talk about accessible information, there was nothing need to read off it all

Not that it matter to me, but it was like war and peace when it came through the door, just like, you know, you're probably be vulnerable, and I just I just it type of thing in the end. But it it it was worrying because the because my p a s partner, he basically became a morning carer in the second p a. But she also had health needs

So for her to be going into the hospitals to have these appointments because she, you know, she genuinely poorly and it's a situation that fluctuates. So it was the panic about them, them going in. My concern about her treatment as well as a friend, you know, was absolutely horrendous

But also the fear of the virus. Then coming into the house, was feeling it. And it was like every little thing you were tested

You know, like your temperature, every little cough. What is that placebo thing? Do you remember Isaac? I think a lot of us got poorly mentally. And then and then physically, you know, it's the first time since the injury I felt really challenged with my mental health, you know, and I'm fortunate that that hasn't happened too often for me in my life

I don't know. You talk a lot about your situation. I'm so proud of you as my friend and as your colleague and someone that you learn from but it

But you know, for people to be in that situation, isolated without any support. There are a lot of people in a lot worse situations than me. Isaac and I really wonder how they coped in that situation

A lot of people haven't coped, and they haven't come out of it. It's a reality, Isaac, and that's That's what we're now talking about in Manchester. In these sort of post covid meetings, long covid meetings isn't just the physical impacts of long covid

It's the mental impact as well. I just like I just you took me on such a journey of like the the days that we didn't know anything and that we like I I and like people knew, were like leaving their shopping outside and washing their letters, and it made it all all up and how we had to lock down with the support that we had. How did you like organise that everyday things like we've you know, we have, um you know, long term health challenges

How did you like, manage? Like your your health challenges? How did you manage shopping? How did you manage P p? All those things like like like I mean, p p was was more of a challenge. That was someone different. Rochdale Council

So I do a lot of stuff with with all the Rochdale Council were really good. They had, like, the voluntary shop thing and the the things like, you know, the the pharmacy, the pharmacy. We have to, like, deliver prescriptions and do things, you know, in in and out on and people who I I thought engaging with the like, the bot, uh, helps people give people a job

And also I got you. You got new friends from afar. I thought that was a, to be honest with you, I thought that was a real positive

It was easy to be negative, but But that that was something, You know, I I also tried to be as independent as possible with family and friends. I got an extra freezer so that we could get, you know, kind of cook in bulk, like get things in bulk as well, which is a privilege that I had because I can afford to do that. But everyone's in that position

But there was also with the shop who came, whether we like it or not like free food. But I didn't want to take the food, so I said, I don't want the free food. So then we ended up giving the food away, which is where I started to think about, like cooking like the NHS a thing

And like some families, people who are away from the kids. So my sister is a physiotherapist and with two Children, like a single mom, now a single mom. But at the time, we like a Let's say, a distracted ex partner with mental health and and behaviour was challenging, and they were on a family in the pandemic, and I remember his partner at the time, and just it was just a nightmare

So I think he's dealing with, you know, a divorce. 22 young teenagers who were going through that experience and the pandemic and the educational side and having to do the work as a single parent and then going into saying helping people say goodbye to her, you know, she retraining. She was on the on the big time, and she was like, I'm fine

But you know, some of my colleagues I'm like, Ma, how are you? Fine. How are you? Fine. My little my beautiful little sister

How are you? Fine. You can't be fine. But, you know, she made out

She was so you know, and you can't get around her. But, you know, there's also the fun side where, like, you know, watching people falling over virtually because you've had too many jeans on the Friday night. And we did

I did like a quiz online. The people got involved in and stuff like that and got dressed up and did silly things. And you, you kind of learn how to connect a bit more in some ways, but I just It it was such a journey, wasn't it? And but there was some positives is what I'm saying

Some and there were some real heroes there, Um, including the community and people doing shopping, you forget. Don't you forget about that story. It feels like a lifetime ago, doesn't it? Yeah, it was

Tell me about like you mentioned the P PE. So, like, did you like, how did you make sense of that? Or just I mean, the thing is, the the thing is, in terms of, like what we were doing, we didn't really leave the house. So you don't really need much If you're not leaving the house as long as your as long as someone's got it in here and those coming in for three months, we kind of We had the p p kind of dictate

It was more the mask test bit, say, or something test. They did. And I was just I I didn't want anyone

I didn't want anyone coming in doing the test. We we were. We didn't want anyone coming in

It was just like, absolute. What's the point in someone coming in to put mat masks on? But if someone's caring for you, they need to wear this mask and have it like it's a certain fitted and I'm like, but we're not going anywhere. My car is not going anywhere he could get out and do a bit of shopping and And what have you But all all that was doing was doing

Like I said, I I you know, I announced before that there were certain difficulties and challenges how you know, do it this way. And and I'm sure that he was going out doing things differently. A little bit of thinking, you know, do one work, you know, do what I'm doing

I'll do it my way. Which is fair enough because, you know, I became a bit of a dictator, which is not like me at all. But like, you know, we all agreed to it like a strategy, but But it it felt like, you know, that that element of stuff, you know, when when we did need stuff, it was provided

We got too much of anything to a certain extent, and I found parts of it easy, but I didn't know what to do with it. I didn't want to use it. It was just It was just lumped at my door

Isaac. It wasn't like, you know. What do you need? How do you feel about it? Is what is what you do

Have you thought about different strategies? It was not helping our bias. We weren't allowed to link into helping our bi. I did a business plan and presented to the C C G about pay for pay like group that they could be involved in to help each other Just a really positive solution based group and just got completely just totally five pages of my best English

So frustrated, you know, just frustrated. So what a missed opportunity. So there is lots of talk handy right about this post pandemic world or now Covid is over

People say, What does that feeling look like to you as a person living with disabilities? Um, from my point of view, I personally until we start having these conversations strangely and then we start, you know, because I'm still involved in like, um, sort of lived experience groups in Manchester. It becomes a lot more real in terms of the impact that it's had people still feeling isolated, so not safe on transport, not not feeling safe, um, re engaging with the community, not not understanding. I'm in the right information in the right format at the right time around vaccine information

It's like an e petition. Someone sent me something from a a charity called Autism. You were amazing Charity

They've just got a completely different call it rigid thinking. You know, people knew your diversity, rigid thinking, and and you know how you know someone in that situation perceives the world and the safety and the challenges and and people not getting back out and not feeling safe, not re engaging. So that's, you know, employment, leisure, and that has a huge impact on the mental health

And I just feel like it's been pushed under the carpet because we're because we're skin and we've got we've got 15 prime ministers in by by a week because because the government can't sort themselves out and because Queen's died, God rest us all and bless her. Do you know what I mean? And the family around her? I mean, that's a a human being, you know, and and it's heartbreaking. For any family, to lose a family member does seem like a really good egg

But that doesn't mean that the rest of the world isn't still suffering and experiencing things, and and I don't mean that as if you shouldn't create news about politics. Or you shouldn't create news about the death of of, uh, you know, such a highly regarded member of the royal family. You should be having more discussions around mental health people feeling safe, getting getting back in society, employment, you know, Apparently there's no, there's no, um, there's like a AAA shortage of in the workforce

And yet some people can't get jobs. You know, there's no sort of There's a complete disparity between between that and between helping facilitate people back in society. And it's like that conversation, because country skin, some people are pushed being pushed right to the to to the the back end

Conversations likely disagree. But often I, I found, rather than work together, sometimes the disabled community can work against each other and be almost be competitive. You know, it's about like imper types, rather than just supporting each other and having conversation like we would always have

I, you know, just being human beings about it rather than you know. So you know, this is your imper and your challenge. This is and this is our so let's, you know, in competition for hours and support and money and that kind of thing

That's not how it should be at all. It it just takes me to that thing of like So I I want to, like, if so, so the I think covid like, shone a light on some of the pre-existing challenges that were already there for people with disabilities. Um, and like, what do you think? We've learned from the pandemic and lockdowns? Have we learned anything at all? I think I mean, I be the carbon footprints gone down

We do a lot more of this stuff, don't we? Rather than meeting up with each other, I'm not seen you for ages, um, which I don't I don't think that's a good thing. Necessarily. I do think carbon footprint saving the energy

I mean, there's elements of balance around it. I think there's a lot of learning to be done if you if if you if you listen and you and and you listen to conversations like this and there's a lot of learning to be done, I think there's a lot of things like be open, trust our community to to to to help each other and share from each other like it's like let disabled people connect people with care and support needs like this we we were talking about. Um So So I I've got a training day for for three guys today

Now that could be 12 people. So? So the the the public sector are paying for something where there could be somebody else in the community of Rochdale who could benefit from that training. I'd have them in my house, come to my house, have that training and and and save a few quid on each

You know, share the cost of the P H. B. But they won't like it because of confidentiality

What a load of nonsense. What a load of nonsense, you know, like, why can't we connect? Why can't people with you know similar sort of support needs, You know, challenges, obstacles, but also opportunities will work with each other. I think there's a lot of learning that can be done from it

If you open your eyes and your ears up to what people with lived experience like ourselves are happy, as I'm sure you'll learn from a conversation, you'll help us bringing up your own input into it. Is it would you agree with that? I think listening to people and design services with people in mind be more open to it. I also think that in Manchester, the Covid health equity group really did try to disabled people

So? So the role that I got to project manage was amazing to be involved in and and actually the charities so so start to work together. They they'd like, do joint bids for the first time ever rather than work together in competition. So there's a couple of companies like Breakthrough, the Coalition for Disabled People

Uh, R N I B Manchester decent. You know, those are the meetings that I was project managers and facilitating alongside health professionals and things like, you know, making things easier, making accessible BSL captions, that kind of thing and trying to tackle and and deal with, You know, the the the isolation mental health side. You know, um, accessible lines, helplines

You know, what if people, you know, how do you get a vaccine to someone who doesn't want to leave the house? And you know that that that kind of thing and doesn't want you haven't seen people? How do you get people to have a conversation and and and open up to, you know, to try to talk about the feelings and that kind of thing. And I thought it was fantastic and what they've done with that, rather than cancel it, they they've moved that into, like, the poverty strategy. Now they've moved into, like, healthy minds

They moved into, like, hospital. So there's a lot of good work that was done. I I I felt in in Manchester, and I was a small part of it

But I've learned I've learned from it and that, but keep doing it, you know, they have in Manchester and fair play. They funded another year bridge to look at other strategic things and that, you know, and I find those sort of meetings conversations really healthy, Hm. Really important that that keeping like the lived experience at the heart of all this so important? Yeah, definitely

Yeah. And I wanted to ask you, like the so this, uh, kind of inquiry This this kind of these conversations are gonna feed directly into the covid inquiry And how, um, disabled people experience covid and the lockdown. What would you want as a disabled person for that inquiry to hear about the experiences of deaf and disabled people

Yeah, I I I think I think, like involve them from the very onset. There's a pandemic. There's a crisis, talks about it, be honest and open about it, and how we just had this discussion about how we we deal with that

Let us link together and be a bit more transparent and open for those who want to link together. If people don't want to be linked together, leave them in peace. If that be their wish, you know, design things around people

It's more efficient, it feels better. It's more effective. Um, you know, it's it's it

It helps you advance in a more positive way, and it keeps people feeling a lot safer and connected to the community. Don't isolate people, don't and and don't box people off and don't make assumptions around vulnerability as, uh as well, If if if that makes sense, I think that's one of the that. That'd be one of the big things of that discussion

But don't just throw resources needlessly at people because you think it's the right thing to do. You know, have a purpose for it. So if you're going to spend money, spend it wisely

You see what I mean? If you're gonna use resources and use it wisely and bring people into the discussion that have, uh, a solutions based outlook on life positive people, you know, we've lived experience. Yes, it's tough. Yes, I'll tell you real as well

It's not always going to be positive. You've got to bring the problems issues in order to sack them. But then have those people part of that positive solution based discussion

Thanks, Andy. That is brilliant and really important. Insights and points

So can I. Is there anything else you wanted to share with me about your experiences of covid and the lockdowns? I I I think I think the thing is that it's still around for a lot of people, and I think that's the thing. And I think, like, you know, that post covid thing is something we need to be throwing resources out

We need to have that awareness we need to be having those discussions not just in in these sort of smaller meeting rooms or the platform that you'll help us provide, you know, have it you know on, you know, on the telly, have it in social media. Have it. So it's OK to feel like you, Can you? You can talk and you can talk about feeling unsafe

I think it's a brilliant advert at the moment around about, um, it's it. It's a It's a commercial advert rather than the public health one. But it's around, I think this these three like ladies, having a discussion around but basically being skin in the cost of living prices and and and saying, No, I'm a private person, but it feels nice to have a chat about it, and I like that stuff

Do you know what I mean? But why should it be doing it? Or Barclays? Why should it not be? You know, public health thing, you know, particularly around. You know, there's a lot of stuff on a league players as you know, Isac, and there's that thing around. But I'm also a guy who's had a spinal injury, and I'm an emotional and and I've learned to talk about my feelings and not be the testosterone and, you know, put a mask on on behalf of everyone to open up and to have a conversation with people about being scared, being vulnerable, You know, that kind of thing

But a lot of people don't have that in their lives. You know? Mums, guys, girls, kids, You know it. It's You know, the conversation needs to needs to be promoted and continued because covid hasn't gone

The legacy is probably gonna hit harder than the pandemic did. If we don't tackle it, I think that's it. And good luck to anyone who's hearing this

He's part of that, uh, making that happen as well. Thanks, Andy. I'm gonna stop the recording now if you don't have anything to add, right? Yeah

Brilliant. Let me.

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