Report transcript in: Stuart talks about their experiences of suicidality, mental health, seeking support, and the role that faith has played throughout their journey.

Please Report the Errrors?

first of all,

can I get you to introduce yourself,

tell me a little bit about what you do,

and then

a little bit about

sort of like what are your hopes,

dreams,

like what,

what do you wanna do in it,

what are you doing in the world and why are you doing it?

Yeah,

um,

so I'm,

I'm Stuart De so and um I'm a young-ish person.

I still,

I still sort of grab onto that,

hold onto that young,

young person sort of title or um label

that I've read for,

for,

for way too long now,

and,

um,

so I've got lived experience of accessing

mental health and physical health services,

and I've got a degree in health and social care,

a diploma in healthcare management policy and research.

And I use sort of that in addition to my lived experience to work

alongside

small and I have to

be honest,

this usually just small ones because

I feel like we can have personal conversations with small

home care agencies or individuals who are passionate about um

sort of project work and they're just wanting to get it

sort of running.

So recently I had conversations with someone who's,

I've worked with her before

where she's come as a participant in a lived experience project.

That I was coordinating on and now she's gone off to start her own

sort of a piece of work within theatre,

so working alongside her,

just

putting the building blocks together because that

that project management side of it,

the policy

element of it and the research,

I've been privileged to still be able to bring

things that I enjoy

and then things that I've studied,

going to university for that sort of build.

A career out of,

but then also being able to bring my own sort of lived experience to talk about

my experiences to be able to help

not just um when I was younger,

I really wanted to make experiences different for young people.

I was really,

most of what I,

most of my introduction or what I talked about was

based on young people.

And then I got

Around more older people and I realised that there

there isn't much of a difference between our experiences.

So we are,

we are put into

these um brackets or sort of compartments where

almost like 16 to 18 or 16 to 25 and then there's um

there's a imaginary

sort of war between us,

but then you can,

you can find yourself,

your experiences overlapping.

You can find I,

I was um 1617.

Sat in a waiting room um discussing sort of bladder conditions

with a 45-year-old who was there for the first time.

I had been there twice

or 3 times or whatever,

so I was quite comfortable within that space and then on the flip side of it,

I've been um

30,

turned 30 a few months ago and talking to someone who is

17 and they're telling me things that are blowing my mind about

sort of uh social media being like connectivity and still being lonely

within a digital world.

I think there's um

experiences

are

are valuable regardless of age,

regardless of.

Sort of where they're coming from,

I think I I've come to an appreciation over the years

of just being able to have conversations,

stories,

to talk about experiences.

So I want to be able,

like you asked me what I,

so what I'm hoping for.

I hope we're able to

take time as a society,

as a community to listen

to what people have to say and to meet people where they are

because um.

I feel like sometimes we dismiss,

it's quick to dismiss,

it's quick to judge

or easier

to judge when you what you don't understand because maybe you're looking at it from a

30 year old perspective,

but there may be sometimes you need to.

Sit down and then just let,

let the story and take,

take what you need from it,

or take what you relate from it,

whatever it is that that whoever

it is that's delivering it.

That was very eloquent and beautiful.

So think about those lived experiences,

so.

As you know,

I launched this campaign on my birthday.

Happy birthday for your 30th,

which you kept secret.

Um,

and

this campaign is

about the racialized experience of suicide prevention.

my first kind of opening question is,

you've done lots of lived experience

work,

you're also a professional,

you wear multiple hats,

but as a racialized person,

do you feel like your experiences around mental health,

And or suicide have properly been understood by people or services around you.

No,

that's,

that's a sort of straightforward answer to that,

but

um I feel like I've always had to,

and one of the reasons why I've had,

I feel I had to wear multiple hats compared to my

white counterparts cause I do have friends who um.

Um,

who are white within the space in Literspoon in space,

and they don't

wear as many hats as I do.

They don't feel they have to to be able to be believed,

to be able to be taken seriously,

and

I know this sounds like a broken record,

but when we talk about things or when I'm reading literature around

Um,

if you are from the global majority and you are preparing to go to your,

to see your GP or to go to see a healthcare consultant like health

and social care professional,

you're going to

make sure you look smart.

You're gonna make sure you can articulate yourself once you get there,

when you get there,

regardless of what level of pain

I'm in,

um,

I mentioned my lived experience of physical health condition and

mental health,

so I've got chronic bladder pain,

so constantly in pain,

constantly on painkillers,

and then you add the.

Um,

mental health aspect of it which I picked up along the way from

lack of sleep and everything else that was going on in my life,

but I've always had to

sit,

sit still,

like sit,

make present myself as professional as possible and

drop some um accolades

to be able to be taken seriously,

so I haven't felt like I've had.

Um,

it,

I think it got to a point where

I left her an appointment

and I,

I just felt like,

oh,

I could have

not attended because all I've just said in there.

He's describing me on a perfect day.

I don't recognise that person anymore.

I'm 5 years into

this diagnosis.

I'm 5 years deep right now.

I'm,

I'm starting to reframe

my whole life,

but then I'm having to go see this,

um,

health professional who is,

um,

usually white as well,

and I'm explaining to them that

oh I can't sleep so and so some days,

and,

but then the reality of it is I'm really struggling.

To to keep the voices out or to keep the voices at bay,

to,

to just go through a day.

I struggled to get to that appointment,

I struggled to

brush my hair,

brush my beard and

wear

like iron clothes and whatever.

I wanted,

I really wanted to wear joggers.

I would have felt more comfortable

in joggers and whatever,

but then I,

I know the environment I'm going into.

I know

um that if I show up

looking like

the um

stereotype

that shows up on TV that shows up on movies then.

I'm gonna sit there and I'm gonna look aggressive,

I'm gonna look like the person who's not gonna engage

with um the medication's not gonna engage with their healthcare plan,

and I'm not gonna look like um a person who knows

because

around sort of mental health or health.

So it's,

it's a um it gets even,

it felt like I've always had to

perform.

With their service apologies for the

for the background noise.

OK.

Can I just ask you about sort of like homing it into like suicide,

suicidality,

bereavement by suicide,

what's your experience around that particular as a racialized individual?

Yeah,

so,

so then um thanks for,

for adding that part.

So I I think I I was I was talking about how I've had to pretend to perform.

So then,

after I've painted this perfect picture of how I'm coping so well,

and everything is great,

I'm attending university,

I'm.

It then didn't make any sense

for me personally,

I think from a personal perspective when I started having um suicidal thoughts

to be feeling that way,

cause then I had sort of told

told myself this story that I need to end at I think at that point

I was seeing professionals,

I was seeing a eulogist maybe on a Monday.

I was seeing my GP on a Wednesday,

go back to see the urologist on the following week to discuss the results from

the previous week and then go see a pharmacist to discuss.

So I was always seeing different professionals and I then I had

this story that I told

which

I felt didn't raise enough flags,

just a pink flag.

It wasn't a red flag,

it wasn't a green flag,

it was just in between and then

people might look at me with some sympathy,

some people might

sort of ask

follow-up questions,

but.

Um,

it just always felt like I played it safe,

so it was confusing to then,

um.

Quite difficult,

not just it's confusing,

but then he made it even difficult to admit to myself that.

Oh,

this is,

this is happening.

This is happening more often than I

expected and then I'm spending more time in bed because I feel safer

there.

I don't want to be out in the world performing

for the world.

I want to just be honest with myself.

I don't wanna be looking in the mirror anymore.

I don't want to

stand to,

and I used to have.

my uni accommodation,

I used to have a mirror right close,

right next to my door,

then I used to cover it with something cause

it just felt like I had to confront myself.

So I had um

internal battle

and then now thinking about

when I would go to a professional to health professional and they asked me how I was,

I'm,

I've already got that story that I've rehearsed

several times because I just needed to be able to get through doors.

To be taken seriously,

to be referred to the place that I needed to get to,

and then hopefully at some point by chance,

I would meet someone who would take some time to sit with me

and ask me how I really am,

beyond the

like beyond the,

the story that I had

sort of rehearsed so many times.

How often did somebody sit with you to get beyond

the story of not coping?

Um,

it happened to me once and this wasn't even,

um,

a health professional,

it was my university tutor cos,

um,

he had seen me when I first started off uni,

and he could tell that I was sort of,

um,

I would just become a shell.

I would rock up,

I would just sit there and,

and then he asked me to come and see him after um.

After our our lessons and I sat in his office,

he had a really like small office and

we're talking a bit about football and then we started

talking about whether I was going back from Southampton to Newcastle

and how I was gonna go back and we're talking about that.

And then he just,

he stopped talking about that and he went.

I mean,

it's I've,

I've seen how you've,

you've been.

I mean,

look at your,

and I think one of the things sort of uh.

Members of the global majority,

men,

uh,

especially some men,

um,

well groomed,

so your beard is shaved,

all of this,

um,

and I used to have hair back then as well,

so,

and he's going,

I mean,

I can tell you um,

you're letting yourself go in that sense,

like how are you

doing?

And um

it took me a while to

To sort of

break all of these,

um.

Routine

that I had set up for myself where

I would just sort of going to,

yeah,

I'm fine da da da da da da da.

I'm taking my medication,

all these things and I just went,

I don't.

I don't know what's happening next.

I'm struggling.

I'm,

and I,

I can't even sort of put a finger to it because I've told myself so many lies

around how well I'm doing.

I'm,

I'm having to confront this

and then I'm going to have to go home,

um,

and tell them that I'm not well,

but then they see me as.

There's a lot of pressure around um.

It's,

it's not just survival,

but the survivor is glamorised,

um,

my experience anyway.

In in some families or some communities,

so then

to say I'm struggling,

you need to be able,

I didn't feel safe enough

in my own community to say,

yeah,

this is,

this is happening right now and so.

Yeah,

that was it,

it took,

it,

it took a lot of um

challenging myself to be honest.

And then once I sort of

broke it all down,

let my

broke all these um

sort of walls I put up for myself to protect myself.

Allowed myself to be vulnerable,

talked about it before.

2-3 hours in this office,

cried a little bit and.

Yeah,

um,

the walk home was also quite,

um,

difficult because then I felt like,

OK,

so now I've put it out there.

What happens next?

Because I've,

I've just told someone from university,

I don't know where they're gonna put this and all this,

but then also now,

now do I,

now can I go find my GP,

try to get an appointment,

try to do all of this,

and those are quite hectic to get anyway,

so.

I went through the process of making myself vulnerable,

and then there was nothing.

Then it was easy,

it was,

it felt easier to try and start and

rebuild the story that I,

the stories that I'd had for years,

but then I couldn't do that anymore cause I didn't,

I just didn't have the strength to do it anymore.

I let myself sit with it and just

um ride the wave.

He was lonely.

He was very,

very lonely.

I couldn't tell my peers.

I couldn't tell

uh my family because of it then.

Sort of

sounds or these alarms or these red.

These red flags and then other people do too much

and then they take away,

um,

any

control,

any power you have in your life.

That's another sort of aspect.

That's that I've experienced um which in discussion

with um my white counterparts that are people with

chronic conditions who

are not from a global majority

that they haven't had

give up.

Parts of themselves to to either just get believed,

we're I then.

Got to a point where I could talk about.

My different experiences,

there was a lot of um.

A lot of questions and a lot of uh doubts,

a lot of poking holes at,

well,

surely you can't be that ill because you walked in

into this

surgery today.

Surely you can't be,

you can't be that bad

because you made this phone call for

for support.

Surely you can't be that bad.

Since you're going to university and

you just always,

you then have to give more

and give more

and give more and sign up to different tests,

set of experiments,

and then you're just giving

and giving and giving.

And then maybe at the end of it,

um.

There's some belief.

Like people believe you and then um

you get some sort of relief from that,

but yeah,

I just feel like

for so long

and I think up until um.

I've sort of found my foot

in um lived experience work and then it became a a job,

a career for myself cause

through some of that I didn't have,

I was sort of

confused on OK,

so what am I,

what can I actually do,

what am I gonna be doing?

How am I gonna put all these things together?

I think up until then

it just felt like um.

I had to always give up

more than I had to like,

oh for sure.

I had to talk about like quite

personal things.

I couldn't

at all.

I don't feel like talking about that now

because then I felt like if I lose this window,

if I lose this support now,

where else am I gonna go?

I can't go to church.

I can't,

some of those places that are.

Supposedly safe

for the global majority and,

and I don't.

I'm not saying they're not safe,

but I cuz I've I've experienced the community in them,

but then.

There's certain topics which are a no no and suicide

is not one of those

um topics you can just bring up.

Mental health,

um,

in general,

it's not one of those

topics you can bring up.

There's questions on faith,

there's questions on.

Um,

sort of how much resilience I had or I have and.

Um,

what's,

what's even

crazier about

all of this now that I'm talking to you about it,

I'm just reflecting.

I was making sense

of my experiences whilst trying to explain to everyone

around my experience,

and I'm not just talking about

um.

Sort of my white counterparts or the healthcare professionals or

who were mostly white as well,

but I'm talking about even people from the global majority who were

still making sense of their own experiences.

They were

sort of seeing what I was going through and they were going,

oh,

so that's what

depression potentially looks like.

That's what that looks like,

so.

It was,

it,

it did feel like a lot of pressure or it does feel,

it still does feel like a lot of pressure to.

To um.

Talk about my experiences

openly,

because then I feel like I'm I'm,

I'm not just,

it's not just me.

It's there's a lot of people,

there are a lot of people who've

sort of been on this journey with me

and it's been

not just my own struggle,

but.

A lot of people have also had to

carry

burdens like help me

walk down some parts sometimes or come up a cliff or things like that,

so.

Yeah,

and in all the conversations

that I've had today to even just say the word suicide or not wanting to be here.

It's really hard

because

there's all of these things around faith,

culture,

self-doubt,

self belief,

how we construct,

and this um,

I mean when you were talking I was thinking that

um.

I was always told like don't leave the house unless you look a certain way,

you know,

don't chat your business to people,

etc.

So when I was

really falling

in terms of like not wanting to be here,

to then say that to someone else,

but also knowing that you could end up in.

A mental health institution or you end up,

it makes it so much harder to get that help.

And

I wanted to like move us slightly on to thinking about,

have there been times where racism,

discrimination

or not feeling like you belong affected your mental health

or hindered how you reach out for support.

Yeah,

um,

definitely,

I think,

um,

I can't remember the stats on top of my head,

but I know there's definitely.

Um,

As someone who's um who's black,

like African,

I'm more likely to get uh sections compared to my um

to my white counterparts,

I think.

For,

for some people,

and I don't know,

I know this is personal as well,

uh,

for different people,

but

for some people they look at that and then it's a stat.

It's just percentages or it's it's a phrase.

It's something to reference in the report and then the report looks nice or it,

it's out there and then you put it on

page 5 if someone is flicking through your report.

But then because I've

I've um

I've tried to access services,

um,

from the outside,

I've I've um I've knocked on different doors.

I've

And

you can tell when

you've been excluded

because of

um.

Your race,

your accent,

um,

you don't,

you know,

a British citizen and all of these things.

And it's um.

It's,

it's frustrating,

but then it's,

it also hurts in,

in the sense that um

we've got,

you then leaves like for me anyway,

I'll then leave some of these spaces.

And then um

go onto social media and

it's

post around Mental Health Awareness Week

around all the work that was,

all the good work that's going on in the community,

and I can't,

I'm not experiencing that because community doesn't,

community does not count me as

one of

sort of,

um,

and it's,

it's difficult

because then you're you're,

you're sort of being told around.

Um,

don't isolate yourself because that's the worst thing

you can do for yourself and then.

It's,

it,

it gave a lot of

mixed messages,

mixed experiences,

and they're not that many services that are.

Tailored

to just sort of people from the global majority so you don't,

you don't have,

if you're if the door is shut

from your local um

sort of service which is accessed to by everyone,

then um.

There's nowhere to go and I feel like that's how I started volunteering for

like PPG's patient participation groups,

um,

and then the ceased clinical commissioning groups used to have

those public meetings and I used to go there um

on a Thursday afternoon or whatever if I was free.

I would go and sit not,

not only for myself but then because I,

I had experienced

what it felt like to be excluded and um in the north,

the north and south,

the famous North and South.

Of England divide,

um,

cuz I did

A levels.

And part of my university in.

In the north and then I moved to Southampton.

For sort of the rest of my university and

then I came back and moved around the country,

but

I could definitely feel how different it was when I landed in,

um,

I used to,

I used to fly between um because of my blood.

But when I landed in Southampton,

like the weight almost felt

less compared to when I was in the north.

I the north up up.

The,

the racism was quite um evident.

It was clear,

it was not,

there was no um subtleness to it.

It was.

And I think that's when

Things became quite um sort of difficult to not perform the performance I was

telling you talking about that you have to go present yourself in a certain way

every single time,

even though it's chaos in my mind.

And then the diagnosis or the triage that happens is based off

what I've said is based off how I'm how I present.

So then

the scores I'm getting or whatever notes are being made,

they're already inaccurate,

so the care that I'm gonna get

through the system,

I would get to the end of it and go,

yeah,

I did come out,

but.

What was the point?

And it's

when you were talking.

Yeah

And this may not be the case,

and please like correct me,

but it's kind of like

you're seeking going through something to help,

but actually you're going through pain whilst doing it.

it's like a double,

you're educating people and you're being

harmed whilst getting help.

Yeah.

Yeah,

yeah,

and um what was what was um

what was what was interesting about that was.

When I first started,

when I was talking about those PP

PPGs and patient participation groups,

one of the things someone mentioned to me,

an elderly gentleman,

was just like

for you to get into this sort of line of work or into these spaces,

you have to be prepared to

go through harm.

So you're not going to go through healing here,

you're going to hear some things that are quite difficult,

and I,

I think I always.

I never understood that or I never accepted that to be um a given cause then.

And I'm glad that I kept at it

because what,

10 years on or so I'm,

I'm around people who

understand it and so I don't feel like I'm,

I'm having to

go through the same harm that I,

but it,

it was quite a lot of,

there was

harm,

there was,

I was educating myself.

I'm,

I'm having to go find

The information that I'm.

I'm going to be trying to educate someone else on,

but then I'm also getting to,

I'm reading this,

I'm finding out about this service for the first time myself,

coincidentally,

I then run into someone else who's potentially going through

something similar or has got questions,

so then I can just.

Sort of pass the information on,

but then for me to get to

that support,

yet I've had to

skip,

I've had to roll over,

I had to do some sprints and,

and it was,

um,

it's,

it's difficult,

it's difficult to access

services within a space or um a community.

That's sort of weighing you down.

That's pulling you back,

that's holding you back,

that's adding another hurdle.

You think,

oh yeah,

oh this is it,

and then there's another one.

You start,

we start to have conversations about

tailored services to have conversations where.

Um,

services can admit that,

oh,

we,

we don't get it right when we're just supporting people from the global mogility,

and then it's,

oh no,

but then it's one size fits all.

And like,

hold up one second,

we were just talking about,

we've just admitted this

and it,

it seems,

yeah,

it was,

it's difficult to engage in that,

um.

In that,

in that space in in services like that,

and it's even more so um.

When I was working

within them.

So when I was working in the NHS,

when I was working in um sort of social care services,

and I'm seeing that these are not.

These services are I'm I'm not being designed um

for me

cause then when I'm going to A&E

at night,

um,

so I'm,

I'm working the 9 to 5 and then maybe at night I've got a flare up.

I'm sitting in the

A&E waiting room and I'm thinking this is.

This is exactly what I'm having to fight for um

during in the day job

and then as soon as I clock out,

I still have the health condition.

I still have the pain that I'm,

but then I'm still having to

to pick up a full-time job cos the advocacy is,

is a whole.

Jump on his own self advocacy and events that advocated for others,

it's.

It's a lot of,

uh,

it's a lot of work,

a lot of work.

It sounds like it,

and I just wanted to like.

What does

Racism,

how does racism appear around like suicidality,

suicide prevention,

like,

cos

I mean,

yeah,

a lot of people I suppose listen to this episode will be like,

so what,

how,

what does it look like?

It's,

it's being ignored,

it's being told it doesn't exist,

it's being told you've got no reason to,

to be feeling like this.

It's being told you,

you haven't accessed um services

that we've provided,

you feel like this because it's your fault.

It's being told um.

That

the services just don't have the capacity

to,

to be,

to be sensitive to

your experiences as a as a migrant,

as a.

As someone who's black African,

as,

as um as someone who's not had

access to

a therapist who,

who can sit with me in a

in a way that understands my faith,

it's being told that um

I've added hoops myself by

Um,

being Christian or disclosing that I'm Christian or it's been

it's.

Yeah,

it's um,

it's,

it's all of those things and more that I haven't

um.

I haven't sort of gone into,

it's it's ignoring them.

The multiple issues that are around,

so we're talking about

schools,

justice,

economics,

um,

all of,

all of those things that are at play for someone who is from a global majority,

as soon as they

walk out of their house,

but then even within their house,

it's ignoring that all of those things have

have an impact on

how I process

the world or how I experience grief,

how I experience.

Um,

pain,

and then

what was.

And coming back to myself personally,

I guess what was painful for me was

to see how

some of some people who were also experiencing chronic pain

in some of the services I was in were being treated,

were getting um

being referred to

all these places

on the first go and then I'm having to come back.

And sometimes I used to tell myself no it's maybe it's because I'm young

so I don't look

like what I'm going through,

which is.

If we're talking about faith,

it's,

it's a plus,

but then,

um,

in a service,

yeah,

you,

it,

it that means you keep falling

to the back of the list.

It's being placed

at the bottom even though you've um displayed the pain,

even though you've described

your symptoms.

It's being

um like not believed and

assumption that I want to be.

Uh,

I just want to abuse different,

um,

painkillers or I just want to,

um,

avoid work.

I'm lazy.

I don't,

I don't wanna work.

I just wanna be on benefits or

it's being,

it's all of those things

being put first ahead of my health.

That's how I think that's how um racism presents.

Can I ask you a question around

so.

The chronic long-term

health of people.

What impact does that,

like,

so if you're not being supported around that.

And you're falling through

the,

you're not

getting the support.

Does it

Lead people to the places of really poor mental health,

does it lead people to thinking,

I don't want to be here anymore?

Yeah,

yeah,

definitely,

I think,

um,

and it's,

it's so quick as well how um.

Surprisingly quick how fast you can get to the point,

um,

like my own

personal study,

I always,

um.

I think this was

3 or 4 years into my diagnosis.

I had had biopsies before.

I'd had a catheter before.

I'd.

So then I,

I think.

Mentally I thought,

oh,

I'm,

I've seen

it also.

I don't see myself crashing anytime soon.

But then

what,

what I didn't realise was

I'm always having to

show pull up 150%

to just make it through a day.

So I'm doing this consistently for

years and then there's no support

around.

I'm not being sort of told about.

Um,

all these avenues that are around that I might,

that might potentially benefit me.

Maybe there was an assumption that of

stereotypically or um

a stereotype that.

Um,

people from a global majority are always part of a larger community.

Yes,

the parties are nice,

whatever,

but then

there's certain topics that are still taboo within that community.

the isolation,

the loneliness was not sort of picked up upon.

So then I was

I would get discharged from the hospital,

I would go home,

I would just

process it somehow,

but then

I feel like it was just half baked,

so then I'd go out

and then we would repeat that,

that cycle

for,

for a while up until

I got admitted,

had a biopsy,

had a catheter,

and then

it was when they had to

apologise,

it was just too much information,

but when they had to pull it out.

Um,

and this was normal,

like you know,

I'd,

I'd had this done many,

several times,

and I was lying there

and I could feel that something was starting,

like I was starting to feel off.

There was,

there were,

I think I'd reached my,

um,

breaking point.

But then because I had been brave

all these years,

um,

high fived on my way out,

for the nurses,

went out,

went home,

um,

went to lie.

I thought I'll just slip,

I'll slip this off,

and I didn't actually fully understand what was going on then.

And I realised that I'd been in these days for,

for um a few days,

and then days that got into weeks and then um.

It was,

it was a routine procedure.

It's something that was normal,

something I'd experienced before,

but then

when you are running

at that,

when you're having to put in that much energy

to just navigate.

Life

and um society and um

sort of family

and.

Um,

not be

the um.

The black sheep,

the,

the one person who,

who's who,

who um,

who failed to control his emotions

and having to always be uh polite,

not,

not that that's a bad trait,

but then it's sometimes you have to.

You have to scream

sometimes,

but then if you can't,

if there are no spaces for that to for,

for all of the outlets without it being taken as,

yeah,

he's definitely on drugs.

He's an aggressive

without all of this,

um,

it's,

you,

you internalise it so much that it's,

it eats you up.

It definitely it eats you up and then.

It you crash and everyone around you

starts to go,

oh,

we don't know how he got there.

I'm like forget,

forget the fact that he asked for

mental health support two years into the diagnosis.

It's almost ignored

and then people start to crowd the

current state

and I think it doesn't really help because then they,

you feel suffocated.

You feel,

if everyone's now observing you,

the performance thing that I'm talking about,

it almost

feels like um

When I when I watch.

Um,

Animals from,

from the circus or whatever,

but

the performances and

there's bright lights,

there's everyone,

everyone's just sort of

locked in on you and

you want space,

so then if you push everyone away at that point,

no one is coming back,

you sort of have to give in and then you just go,

you know what,

let's just,

let's do it.

And what are you offering?

OK,

let's let's try that and then

what are you offering?

it's,

it's either,

it felt like.

Um,

you take all the support,

even what you don't need,

but then because

you might get taken away

just as easily as he was brought around,

you become,

um,

Easily

pulled into different directions

and there's a I,

I feel like at some point there was a loss of self

that I was just sort of

within the system and I was just going with the flow,

not because

I felt it was the right treatment,

but because I knew if I

abandoned that,

then

that's gonna go on my record and those um.

We find ourselves talking about records.

I found like this this is my friends and I,

we find ourselves talking about records in terms of criminal records,

watching DBS shows and all these things.

But then

as someone who has a health condition as well,

like who's constantly looking at NHS letters,

I've seen how

A certain phrase can change the trajectory of your treatment.

So then I'm also conscious that I'm not just talking about a record,

which is sort of a criminal record or

whatever,

but I'm talking about my health record.

I need that to be my credit score is just as important as my,

the letter that's going to come from my GP to the next person.

I need to go there

on my best behaviour as well.

So regardless of

what the chronic illness is dishing up on that day,

I still need to show up and.

And be as professional,

as polite as um

as they can be,

the best patient that I can be just to be able to get in.

So,

but yeah,

I think um I went,

I've touched on different things there.

No,

but important things and

I mean you've been around a bit,

you've done a lot of work.

How many

do you think a lot of people.

Um,

and not here because they haven't been able to make it through.

A lot

I drink a lot,

that's why um.

I'm,

I'm grateful.

To be able to to have been around,

um,

grateful to be able to meet.

Different people who were

who had views

or values

aligned who were similar to which overlap or were similar to

to mine because I feel like um when I when I

talk about.

And I'm,

I'm,

I'm guessing.

Like from from that phrase that you used there like here.

I'm thinking here in terms of the people who,

who've had suicide thoughts.

And then maybe came,

saw the other side of it.

So I'm grateful for the support I got

at that time.

Yes,

it wasn't perfect,

but then um my community really stepped up.

My friends,

my family

really had to educate themselves um to get to a point.

But then I also understand the privilege that came with

my parents both have degrees.

Um,

my dad is an engineer,

my mom is a social worker.

So they've,

they were in positions where they could

Um,

afford private care,

for example,

when it really,

really got bad and then I had friends who.

Um,

where.

We're quite flexible.

They were kind,

they took their time.

that that's,

that's sort of one aspect of here for me.

But then

the other bit which I think about um

and I always talk to.

It is sort of,

it's,

it's something that's within me and which drives some of the work that

I do now and wanting to create opportunities for people who have.

Chronic conditions,

people who have um suicidal thoughts have come out on the other side and want to

be able to share their story and be able to help others

because it's.

There's a lot of

um value or a lot of weight or a lot of

power

in listening to someone or um I mean I've seen the awards you've gotten yourself and

I'm inspired by that.

I'm motivated by that.

Not,

not only

it's.

It gives a sense of,

I know it's not perfect,

the world that we're working,

but then there's that,

um,

a sense of hope

and it's

regardless of how many times I've tried to separate the two and go,

OK,

I'm here in a professional sense.

I'm still carrying that weight from

when I was 21

and suicidal when I was.

Going through navigating different systems,

different spaces,

all of that comes into play,

so I'm here,

I'm grateful to be here in places or in

in in spaces,

opportunities where I can

disclose this as a career.

And then the here part,

the other part,

the here,

the other,

the last

bit is the sort of the current state,

so just to be involved in

projects,

campaigns similar to this which

allow me to share experiences and we ampl voices are amplified,

stories are amplified to be able to reach other people who are,

who might be in a different.

Sort of position

in their journey.

So there might,

some people are starting off,

they've just gotten the diagnosis of just

started experiencing

suicidal thoughts or um

whatever and some are

sort of,

does it end?

And then

if anyone is on,

oh,

so things have sort of settled down now,

but then what can I do with every,

all of this experience that I've had?

Because you turn into a health navigator,

you turn into

Um,

you're an advocate.

You turn into all of these things like these Jews that come,

um,

from the caves of suffering.

I think it was

someone who wrote that,

uh,

David Gilbert or something,

um,

I read it in one of his books.

And

there's,

there's value

in all of these experiences,

but then if you don't.

Read about other people doing

that work or doing using,

using the experiences for good or using the experiences to

inspire others,

you don't,

you don't hear about these opportunities um here from

anywhere and

I think the

One of the things that's frustrating for me is.

10 years ago,

I think I feel like I was saying the same

statement around opportunities

to get involved in pieces of work.

It's like,

oh,

but then how do you hear about this work?

And like if you don't get referred to by someone,

then how do you actually find out about it?

And then we'd go a year after a year after a year after,

you know,

like 10 years on,

if I was to record myself 10 years on,

I'd be going,

oh,

I'm,

I'm almost asking the same questions and how do we,

how do we get word

or how do we spread?

These positive stories,

these

experiences to to the people who need it.

Um,

people who are,

who are looking or who are reaching out for,

I need something to

focus on.

I need something to give me

hope.

And that's what,

that's,

it,

it might not be sort of the,

the primary

intention of it,

but there's a lot of um

inspiration,

a lot of um

Hope that's sort of tied into reading a blog about someone who's been through

really dark times

and then um

come out on the other side and they're honest about

their experiences,

the ups and downs.

It's not um

an easy walk

to.

And that here thing is really interesting because I was thinking about.

That somebody

somewhere is going to see this

and maybe stay here because

they recognise that somebody like them has been

here.

And if I roll back 5,

1015,

20 years,

I never saw people like me

the suicide prevention space or

I didn't even know that I have the language to talk about suicide,

like it

just didn't happen.

So I wanted to like explore with you,

so what would feeling generally

safe,

listened to,

cared for,

heard

really feel like when it comes to suicide prevention for racialized communities?

I think

it's

It's um

It means someone doesn't have to go through

years of struggling.

It means um

disclosure

at a,

at an early stage,

someone actually opening up

about the experience about how about how they're feeling.

It means um.

It means I guess um people always sort of count the cost,

but then

if I think about my own experience of

I went to therapy,

some of it are self-funded,

and then I went to

the university counselling services,

and then I went to,

but then it,

it took,

it took a conversation that was.

In my uh tutor's

sort of office.

if,

if say for example,

that had

happened earlier on,

then um

we would have had a conversation.

We would,

I would have been able to.

Be signposted or referred to the right place

earlier on,

I wouldn't have had

some of the experiences I had with substances.

Um,

I wouldn't have had.

Um,

the negative impact it had on relationships

as well,

like friendships and.

Um,

so dating and,

and then that takes years away from your life,

that takes,

that really,

um,

messes quality of life,

um.

And

It's,

it's not,

you can't really measure it in,

in,

in a,

in a way,

but um.

It,

it then has,

it has quite a.

Um,

a long lasting

negative impact

on people,

pain and on itself,

and I think.

When I,

when I sort of talk to people who also live with chronic pain.

Um,

And they asked me how I distinguish

between,

chronic pain for me now has become sort of part of my day to day,

so that's just regular pain.

And then the pain I'm referring to,

which comes from not being,

not having

access to safe spaces,

not being listened to,

not being

all those ingredients that you would need to be able to.

Have an honest conversation about um how you're feeling.

For me,

it's.

It's,

it's grief.

It feels almost like grief.

It's so heavy

on some days

and some days I sort of manage and then gets really,

really,

really heavy,

but then it's because

the

The thought of what could have been.

If only

that conversation had happened.

Earlier on

Sometimes sort of floats through your head

and even when you shut it out for for a while,

it sort of pops back in and then

you then sort of,

well,

I then go through the motions and then land on,

OK,

so now I'm focusing on

where I am at the moment and then what,

what can come from

all of that

hurt.

What can come of that for not just my immediate family,

not just for my cousins

or just my friends,

but then how can I,

how can it go

out there and like you said there it's,

it's quite.

When I mentioned my experiences to speak to,

when I spoke about them openly,

the feelings of suicide to my friends.

Um,

there was,

whoa,

and then there was,

wait,

wait a second,

um,

I think I know someone who was going through

something similar and we just shut them out

because they stopped replying messages or they stopped.

understanding

comes,

comes easier or it,

it allows room for understanding,

it allows room for questioning.

Because like you said,

the,

the language

didn't exist.

Um,

I wasn't looking at,

I wasn't looking this up.

Sort of 10 years ago

so,

but

it was only when I had experienced it and I'd sort of grown up,

grown up or been around.

Healthcare language or terminology and I thought,

oh,

I'm,

I'm comfortable around this until it became,

it became personal,

until it became

um sort of part of

who I was until it became my own experience and I realised I'm paralysed.

I can't,

I can't utter these words.

I can't say it out loud.

I know what it is,

but then

I don't think I can,

I can put it out there

for,

for a long,

long time,

so.

Yeah,

that's I feel like.

Those things like what what they feel like being,

being in a safe space,

being it it definitely feels

it just breeds or allows for um

early early disclosure,

early detection and er

just early support.

just not going through

a terrible time when you don't have to.

I feel like we've we've had so many people now um.

We struggle to

find.

The support that they need at the right time

and then the impact on not just on themselves

and on

their families,

their,

it's wider,

it's bigger than um

I wish I could sit here and confidently say it only affected me.

It didn't.

They,

my friends,

it changed,

it changed a lot of lives and I think.

If we can appreciate that or take that

um as a maybe if we recognise that

or talk more about that,

the wider impact,

you might make it um

a priority

or put it out there

more as well because maybe when you see it as

1 in 4 people,

1 person.

It's going to get,

it's not,

yes,

I might be the one who has it,

but then,

or who's experiencing this,

but I'm not the only one who is

suffering.

I've got a younger brother,

I've got older brothers,

I've got friends,

I've got.

Um,

aunties,

my parents,

it's not just me,

it's who's counting that are the cost

to,

to those in my immediate family,

but then the wider community as well.

Where is that cost being counted?

And that whole thing around like

you,

you've managed to stay

in so many

ways

and so many people haven't stayed and that

cost

of,

you know,

one bereavement,

like I was,

I I don't know if there's a statistic around this,

but one bereavement,

you know,

like I was counting the other day,

like just 70 people were impacted by that.

One person struggling with their suicide experiences.

I was counting and it was like,

oh God,

there's 20 immediate people dealing

and affected like that.

Yeah.

And

that's.

Racialised people I'm talking about that are

already going through racism and other things.

Yeah.

with that in mind,

what's

What's something that you wish people,

organisations,

or services understood?

Um,

better about um suicide for racialized communities.

So this,

this is,

this sounds really generic because I feel like um.

I think about this across the board,

like when I'm asking physical health services,

but then to just be believed,

we're not,

we're not here to play the system.

We're not trying to,

there's

genuine distress behind the smile,

behind the well dressed,

um.

Well,

within

the well dressed,

um,

mealized person that's in front of you who's

been,

um.

Uh,

conditioned

the system

to always have to articulate themselves in a,

in a really professional way or else they get dismissed for being aggressive.

And what sounds aggressive,

I'm,

I'm not scary.

I'm not here to,

to be aggressive,

to be difficult,

to be smashing.

Um,

I am

in need of support.

Genuine support and um.

Yeah,

I think that's.

Yeah.

That sounds like a very good

and I and I'm sorry that there was,

I think,

um.

Because

I've had the geo diagnosis,

it's.

I've had to face that.

In in physical health services and then

you sort of,

I think naively,

I thought,

oh,

mental health services,

so these are supposed to be more

conversation and this is supposed to be safer,

this is supposed to be

where I get the

support and it's disappointing.

I think the disappointment that comes from

you go to try and access services and you realise that,

oh,

it's the same thing

that's happening within uh schools,

that's happening within physical health services.

And

like the,

the impact of um

of racism doesn't just start and stop at the door of.

Support services,

so mental health and physical health services,

it's out there as well,

so it goes beyond.

I think I,

I mentioned this um

with someone.

We both know um who's on one of the panels or the projects that we're on at the moment.

That

It's not just,

I don't just

Experience racism within co-production spaces.

I'm experiencing it out in the real world,

so when I'm talking about

solutions

in the co-production spaces,

I'm talking about

things we can take from here too because we're,

we're

um agents of change out there as well.

We're taking this

um outside of this training to,

to the outside world.

I still need to

get to Tesco.

I still need to get to.

Sort of my GEP,

I still need to have um to go to university,

I still need to do all of these things,

so.

When I'm talking about when I'm bringing experience of racism,

it's not just

in co-production,

this is racism that's happening

in my life.

Yeah.

And,

and

let,

let me,

and this is

me stating this,

my own experience is that in co-production spaces it's been more magnified.

Um,

it's a closed

group of people that you can't,

you know,

when I'm experiencing spaces in the outside world,

I can run away,

I can hide.

I can't do that in co-production spaces because I'm there to,

to,

yeah,

um.

Yeah,

so I've got like 2 more questions.

When I.

Launched a campaign which was yesterday,

um,

and it was really because.

I didn't think I would be here,

um,

because of my own experiences,

and

let me,

uh,

not be dishonest

and

really be

clear.

Uh,

when I saw my experiences were poor,

but actually black men's experiences were poorer and actually,

you know,

am closer to,

I'm privileged from colorism and

being closer to whiteness then

it made me think about like,

you know,

there is a real big problem here

around the racialized experience of suicide prevention.

And

I was reading the 23 to 28 suicide strategy.

And

my heart dropped

when there was no reference,

or very few,

4 I think references,

and somebody might

not like what I'm saying and say oh there's probably 5,

but there were very few references

race playing a part in

suicidality,

suicide experience,

and bereavement.

And I thought that just.

Has not been my living experience that

I have

struggled,

I've known.

Every

Racialized person,

global majority person that I know has

as well.

I have known more.

globalised racialized people that have

died by suicide.

And being let down,

like,

why is,

why is this not reflected in the strategy,

and I just wanted your opinion on like,

does that surprise you that it's not in the strategy?

Um.

It's,

it's,

it is,

um,

surprising,

especially cause I've,

I've,

um,

I've been one of those people who've,

who were

really for the nothing,

nothing about us without us

when those campaigns were sort of um

We're really getting pushed.

But then it's also at the same time not surprising because then um how,

how do I expect these stats to be a priority

people like myself are not even at the table when decisions around.

What's

what's,

um,

what's to be published,

sort of go out or what's

controversial

cause then that's the other thing that comes with um

speaking about.

Experiences of the global majority,

there's always

poli it always sounds like there's politics around it.

It's almost like

you can't say

this group of people have really poor experiences

cause then it almost opens up um

a conversation or

challenges around,

oh no,

but then we also have poor experiences or

how come they're getting the special treatment.

And I feel like

I don't know what the service is.

Or um policymakers or people who

sort of publish strategies or reports.

Have also found it to be a hot topic.

So the topic is now so hot that they're like,

OK,

let's just never,

let's just brush over it.

Let's put it at the bottom of page 28

and then hopefully nobody within the smallest font,

and like hopefully no one ever touches that cause it seems

like society or

the

system.

Is not ready to

have some of the conversations that I've started and it's actually quite

concerning for me,

um,

if I'm gonna be honest here.

That if we,

the progress we are making around

transparent conversations about

these quite sensitive

topics.

Is the system

that we're we're trying to.

That we're encouraging

people from the global majority to engage with,

ready

for people from the global majority to engage with,

because if then they,

they feel

this sense of safety

that you can

go um.

Drive change within

your local um

sort of service

and then you get there and it's the worst experience you've ever had.

You've now been dragged

through

a series of presentations.

You have,

you,

you get brought in just to say a few words because you're the tokenistic

person from Global Majority and then you get put back on the shelf.

There's no

support around you.

I always wondered that sometimes when

I speak to especially young people.

As well that am I doing,

how much good

am I

doing

sort of

speaking about this?

Yes,

there's

they are,

I would appreciate the conversation,

but then

I know what

sort of the system

looks like or what the the system doesn't feel like it's

ready to admit certain things

or have certain conversations,

are we.

Are we potentially moving

too fast?

And then but like I,

I don't know,

like that was,

it's always something that um

that crosses my mind sometimes and.

Um,

because,

yeah,

the,

the wheels have changed and seem to 10.

So the fast enough in.

national services as well,

so then if.

If people are feeling empowered,

um,

not empowered,

we're unlocking these talents they have

to be able to be agents of change,

to be able to do co-production,

to be able to do.

Uh,

collaborative working within

their.

So local services

and the local services are not ready for

for that.

Then what happens then it does not just breed.

Um,

frustration

or more frustration,

is it more harmful than

good.

Yeah,

I don't know how,

how I ended up on a question.

I've got one final question,

but I will just reflect back.

My fear,

and I'm not fearful

today because I had so many people message me,

is that me saying

building the space for

amplifying racialized lived experiences,

suicide prevention,

people would say,

what about us?

Yeah.

And

my view is,

and I will call on.

The work that myself,

you,

Hanny and

done,

there is no hierarchy of marginalisation.

So if we work on our challenge,

we're also working on your challenge.

That's what I believe.

But I also know that

there will be pushback around.

What about us,

we have it worse than,

and that's not

how I

see things.

So my last question

is,

and you might have some for me,

um,

is,

so what keeps you going in moments of difficulty?

Um,

I think I,

I did reference,

um,

when I answered the question about sort of being here.

When I've met,

I genuinely feel like I met

a community at the right time.

Um,

I feel like I was starting to.

Lose hope I was starting to.

Ask my find myself um really struggling after

doing the work because then there isn't,

there wasn't any.

Sort of safety nets,

there's no,

they didn't feel,

it doesn't feel like there's a framework

to doing the work sometimes,

so you're,

you're going in and you're challenging.

Um,

institutions that have traditionally done things

their way.

And then no one really sort of

backs you up and I think that some of it

comes stems from the fear of

if I stand up for that,

then what if someone asks that question or what about us?

So um.

Just seeing how.

The passion of other people really drives me as well,

and.

I think,

um.

It's not,

it's not,

um,

stagnant,

there were moments when I was in a really dark place

and then

when I'm in a good place and I can look at,

I look at the dark times or the spaces differently now

that I'm

where I am,

um,

if that,

if that makes sense.

So like how I,

I even interpret that

or process that those experiences and I was,

I was frustrated because

um.

The diagnosis wasn't

wasn't right or whatever.

So yeah,

it's quite um.

I think that keeps me,

that keeps me going and just seeing the,

seeing the impact

of the work cause

um.

Just hearing back from someone who is,

who I've had a conversation with and

they've gone out and they've taken some time to look at their situation and

process it however way they look at it,

but a different lens

to,

to experience is,

is definitely

something that

That I that I feed off and it it it helps.

It helps quite a lot.

And

you mentioned faith,

and I just wanted that you might not be comfortable talking about this,

but

like,

I love the fact that you are so open about being

a Christian and faith and how important it is to you.

I mean,

so important that you're travelling to Scotland,

which is

very impressive.

Yeah.

Yeah,

um.

So faith is definitely,

and I I feel like,

um.

It's not

It's not talked about much with the sort of the global majority,

especially if you start to get

um unwell,

and this is both physical and

with mental health

as well.

But for me,

it's been um.

I can quote a few Bible verses which

have definitely helped me

make sense of dark times

and then um when I've come out to the,

the other side and then processed

what I've gone through.

So my,

my faith has definitely been something that's,

that's been um

Really,

really important.

I've,

I've held on to it.

Um,

it's been shaken.

I'll,

I'll be the first one to admit

it's been shaking quite a lot,

uh,

because when doors are getting slammed.

Um,

in your face and the system just feels like it's not moving.

You're doing everything

that you can

to try and get the support you need,

and nothing

is helping.

Nothing is,

is,

um,

is moving.

You there's,

there,

there are moments where,

um,

I really,

I really struggled with my faith,

but then.

It's

It's easier to be,

you know,

well,

I find it easier anyway to,

to go to church if I'm in a better.

Mental

state and

um.

I feel like

when we know when I'm said about some safe spaces for.

Um,

members of the global majority,

cos I,

I think

when I see some of the

easy wins

I've seen,

um,

in youth work,

in community engagement,

and like,

oh if you want to go speak to,

um,

people who are Muslim,

for example,

go to a mosque.

So then that's faith as well,

so people,

there's there's this assumption that

people go

to disclose these things.

a church,

but then

I was going to church when I was when I first started self-experiencing

and I,

I felt like I could not

bring it up.

Now I'm

older

and I guess more mature within my own

journey,

faith journey.

Um,

I can talk about certain things,

but I'm,

I'm speaking on them not

in the same

space that I was

years ago,

so I'm not as,

I'm not angry as angry anymore.

I'm not.

Um,

as confused anymore,

I've got an understanding of,

I've,

I'veset

with my emotions,

upset with my experiences,

and,

um,

permission.

I think one of the things as well like,

um,

and this is sort of to anyone who's

experiencing grief

or um poor mental health,

like there's permission to be able to,

to,

to share when things are really,

really bad.

And that's,

that's the truth.

And then if things do get better,

you can still talk about

things getting better cause then I feel like sometimes

when you talk about things getting bad,

you,

you then almost

people don't,

people might not give you the permission

to then come back and go,

oh,

I'm,

I'm really sorry.

I actually really

was,

I was going through a lot

20 minutes ago.

I'm,

I'm a,

I'm a different person now,

so I think there's um.

Giving yourself grace,

I think that's something that's that's come from um having a faith for me.

Um,

I've had to

afford myself some grace

to be,

to go through my

dark moments and

Go through the motions

with the hope that I'm going to

come out on the other side and

it's all for

a purpose.

I'm just going to say it out loud,

um,

the vest that I.

That

that sort of helped me quite a lot.

Uh,

it's um Genesis 50:20,

and it's about.

Someone going through a really

dark time,

though the enemy meant it for evil,

the Lord has made it

for good that many lives will be saved.

And I think from that,

when I heard that

something sort of ticked within me and it's sort of linked to the work that I do

now that I,

I'm always keen to help out

wherever I can.

If I can speak to someone on a 1 to 1,

if I can speak to a group,

if I can

facilitate a conversation about um

different perspective just.

Getting people to see things from a different lens,

process things from a different lens,

even if I don't

reach everyone within the crowd,

within the group.

Even though one person,

cause I used to be the one person who's um.

I was looking for

that one sign

or something to sort of hold onto

and as easy as that can come about,

I've also been on the other side when I was talking about

the Catholic experience.

I'd had a catheter many multiple times,

but then on that one occasion it was my.

It was the last straw,

and I found myself,

yeah.

Well,

just to say my um my Bible verses are not as polished as yours and my faith is

a work in progress.

But my very good friend Jude will be very,

very much delighted.

He's a theologian and um

when I joined him,

he always

um has wonderful Bible verses.

thank you for sharing.

Um I just wanted to ask if you've got any questions for me before we come to an end.

I guess,

um,

Cause I mean you're on the other side of this.

You're the interviewer and you've had,

I mean,

how are you?

How do you go from?

Listening to to Stuart and then you're gonna go to

someone else.

And then not allow it to,

to sort of weigh you down cause I even I feel quite,

I don't feel happy,

but then I do feel like oh this was,

this was quite um like therapeutic in terms of like letting it all out.

But then yeah,

like you just being on the other side of it,

like how are you?

Cause then I imagine

some people who are in your position,

not just sort of as an interviewer,

but then the work that you do

outside of

this,

this meeting that we have at the moment,

you're out there and you're

Always advocating.

You're always challenging.

You're always um sort of pushing.

How are you?

How do you keep yourself going in that sense,

and then what can,

what can

everyone else do?

As well,

like what is,

yeah,

what's the um.

They could model what

there's no secret,

so I think um,

such a profound question.

one

is I am someone

that really.

Wants to be good in the world,

like I know that I'm human and I'm

um,

challenged on many levels because of my humanity,

um or being human should I say,

um,

but

these stories

are,

Really cathartic for

people they say,

but also

learning and also

permission for me to think back to all of those people that

are not here,

if they'd had access to a story like this,

maybe they would be here now.

I always hold that in mind.

I have a wonderful support network.

I have people like you that just say,

how are you gonna

go away from this conversation and think about it.

Um,

lots of community

care and I talk about community because.

Another colleague that,

you know,

very individualistic

support is good,

looking after one's body,

mind.

You know,

the things that I eat,

the things that I think,

the the the sounds that I listen to,

I'll go and have a bath tonight,

I'll

talk to a friend,

I'll,

you know,

I have this space is a different space that I'm in today,

like I've

made this a space to hold this.

Um,

I think.

I'm always learning that

to do this work.

There is a duality of

lots of

joy,

but there's lots of pain and

it's to

to know when that pain comes and you need to talk

or when you might need to say I'm gonna pause or

I think.

I will be very honest,

I have been

so humbled by how many people have come forward to want to support my campaign.

has brought me to tears and I'm not a cry person,

er Stuart,

I'm not the person that cries.

It's brought me to tears because I thought

like,

why,

and then you hear your story and you hear,

um Julie's story and you hear other people's story

and then I've

known people that.

30 years and I've never heard them talk the way they've talked I'm thinking.

No,

this is important,

um I will go and look after myself tonight.

I'm,

my phone is always available to you,

my email,

etc.

I think.

The way that we do our work is

we centre care,

we centre love and compassion,

and that starts with the self and then hopefully the self,

it radiates to other people.

Um,

yeah,

and

if I ever needed to know I can pick up the

phone to you and other people have said the same.

And I hope the campaign shifts from me leading it

to it being something that we all lead together because I think this is

a people's campaign around

building that space

because

prevention built without

us really does fail us.

Going back to that document,

I just have that document in my head is like.

I'm building a space,

we're building a space

and that space has room for everybody.

Yeah.

So,

thank you.

Um,

likewise,

I've just also,

um,

there was an email programme to send to you uh with a consent form and some

safety tips and well guarded wellbeing stuff.

Um,

so you should have received that already because it was,

programmed it to come to you.

Um,

on the hour,

if you could complete that,

and I'll be in touch in the next week or so.

What are you gonna do to like

enjoy your evening or go in with,

yeah.

Um,

so I'm gonna have,

um,

a late dinner and then,

um,

I've just started watching Law and Order.

I don't know how I got into that,

but.

I just lie on the TV,

I lie on the sofa,

I mean,

and then

I have her playing in the background,

and I'll be having a yoghurt or whatever,

and

sometimes my,

my mom

comes downstairs and

she walks in and and we we sort of stop her,

but

no one says a word,

but we just make eye contact,

and I'm holding a spoon with yoghurt,

and she's like,

oh,

is everything good,

like you're good.

I mean I've done them all,

all Law and Order,

all the different ones from California one to this one that

I've watched them all.

There's no more on Netflix left for me cos that's my kind of thing.

Understanding people and why people do things,

so.

Enjoy a lot and order,

but um I'm truly humbled and thank you for

this generous gift.

I'll be in touch

and um

I look forward to seeing you next week.

No,

thank,

thank you so much and yeah,

it was good to,

to,

to have this chat,

and yeah,

looking forward to next week as well,

so.

Bye.

Take care of yourself.

Cheers,

thanks.

Bye bye.

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Author

streetreporter

Post date

11/06/2026