Hameed talks about the development of resources in coproduction how these resources make such a difference, let's experience not only driving to work but actually fronting the work and the importance of this. 

morning. Thank you for agreeing to have a chat and a brew about co production with me. Do you want to introduce yourself? Hello. Hi Hi. Isaac. I'm Hamid Khan And I am, except issues of mental health services. Care for My mom has physical and mental health conditions, and I've been involved with public inspiration involved with engagement, uh, and co production. Um, in the last few years, so can you share with me an experience of co production? My experience of coal production has been recently where I was involved with looking at developing some framework on PP I how to engage and involve patients and public or social and carers in terms of, uh, uh in terms of engaging with them And that was the an organisation where we were developed a framework known as a four piece and I, which was principles, process presidents promote an impact, and it was quite good because it was led and supported by service users and carers. What made it quite good. I think the fact that we took a lot of lead, we were very empowered in a sense that the decisions were made with us and not without us could You were also interested in finding out this stuff that works really well and it doesn't work really well in coproduction. Do you have any examples of what works? Really? Well, what doesn't work so well, I think what doesn't work well is when it's not done with clear clarity and with clear sincerity in the sense that it's just a tick box exercise. And it just means that informing you rather than, uh involving you and that's something I've experienced with sadly, uh, with an organisation I won't mention which one, but with the n h s when they were thinking about closing some services and rather informed rather than involving us to look at ways to find solutions that could work and be a win win situation for the patients, carers and the, uh, service providers, it was more like informing just to say this is what we're doing and accept it. That doesn't sound at all positive. I'm also interested in asking you this question about so you're involved in lots of coach production, the process of co production, and what impact do you feel? Co production has, um, that could be the negative or positive again I think co production can have positive impact in a sense that it provides you with clear evidence knowing that it's the services and carers who are involved in what you're trying to achieve have had an involvement, engagement and clear, um, kind of dead. He's been directed by them, uh, in terms of what would work and would would not work, um, in terms of if provides building a good relationship building trust, providing a place in a space where people feel valued and equal in terms of the decisions that are taking place, where it's negative is where it's done with poor, uh, intention of that. We will show and demonstrate On the surface there's an involvement and engagement of services and carers. But really, it's the people who are in their roles as professionals taking control and making decisions. And that can be quite disempowering because you kind of know it, that you're just there to nod your head and agree rather than challenge and put your own views forward Thank you. So what I've heard is that through co production, um, and the co production process, it has impact. And you've talked about positive and negative So thinking about that impact, Um, what impact do you think it could have or has had on people organisation services and the wider society? I think the meaningful co production has a very positive impact on while the society, because you're involved with the you know, there's different parts of co production that is involving. There's participation. There's, uh, decision making There is, um, you know, and so the real meaningful coproduction what it does, it really, really enables everyone to feel that it's they have ownership and they have some state and some investment in what decisions need to be made or what piece of work that is peculiar or what service this to be designed. So it removes a lot of wastage because from the onset you are informing and involving engage people and asking them what would work and what wouldn't work increases productivity because, you know, people come with creative ideas, creative ways of doing things. It also allows you from the onset to know that age and everyone who is involved in coal production has a role and has a different perspective, and particularly when you look at things from equality, diversity inclusion A lot of times I'm fantastic in terms of ensuring that services are culturally sensitive, our inclusive people who are not there I try to represent underrepresented voices. Uh, marginalised communities are usually coproduction, encourages and enables to ensure that those communities have a way to engage and have a say. So I think co production is that it's a very good process and a model principles that really, really drive equality forward It's wonderful and it's really that really that really touched my heart just thinking about that. So I wanted to have a couple more questions. One would if you could sum up co production in a word or a sentence or phrase, what would it be? And do you have any top tips? So if I had to sum it up, what I would say coal production is let's all get together and let's all come up with creative solutions Let's find solutions that work and which, uh, offer a place the platform for everyone to really find meaningful, meaningful kind of solutions that people at the end of it feel that they have been heard and they have influenced and there participated and no decision was made without them, you know, they were involved in the decision making processes, and the top tips I would have is first of all, please ensure that you understand what what coal production means before you even go out to do any coal production. Because everyone has different ways of interpreting what coal production is. I've had one bad experience where someone thought coal production, just informing people about the changes, and that is not coal production And I haven't had another experience. Where to that organisation. Coal production meant that service users and carers will lead, and the organisation will support them Two to find solutions and make decisions which they will respect and follow processes and develop services that have been led and designed by service. Use this. So that's the first thing Second tip is that please ensure equality, diversity, inclusion in coal production. We need diverse stranger people, and also co production does cost. So please value people's time value people's expenses if they have expenses to get involved, increase access and increased participation by ensuring that everyone around the table is not No one is there and being taken, this a disadvantage advantage of So, for example, National Institute of Health Research involved, they have good guidelines and policies that show you how to value service to users and carers in coal production. Thank you. Do you have any final court of thoughts? I have no other questions I think my final thought would be that it's an ongoing process and it's a circle. And it's a circle co production because there's no beginning or end. You have to keep continuously improving Keep because, like everything it evolves and it grows. It develops. And what was a way of doing it a few years ago? Maybe now a new way of doing things our diverse communities change So co production is a circle, which we just have to keep. The cycle continues the cycle without a beginning and end. Thank you, mate I'm gonna pause the recording. There.

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